(old phone leads to top-post) re matplotlib/html5, is the speed affected by number of function sample points? That seems likely, and something PNGs would not be. So you might need to tune function sampling (or perhaps post-process and remove visually redundant points...).
Of course, "adequate" sampling depends on the zoom... Dag Sverre Seljebotn -----Original Message----- From: William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, Jul 14, 2010 1:57 am Subject: Re: [sage-devel] Re: IDE's; science/engineering To: sage-devel@googlegroups.com, sage-notebook <sage-noteb...@googlegroups.com>, Dag Sverre Seljebotn <da...@student.matnat.uio.no> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Maurizio <maurizio.gran...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I just spend a couple of words about IDEs. I've personally spent a >> decent amount of time on Spyder and Eric, and my impressions are: >> - Eric is very well suited for general software development, it is not >> completely polished, and it lacks (at least explicitly, I didn't get >> those) useful features for scientific computing (which I'll later >> mention) >> - Spyder is theoretically exactly what I was looking for: it is a >> pythonized version of the Matlab GUI, which I felt very comfortable to >> use; nonetheless, the problems are there: >> 1) I find it very slow (even if I may have problems with matplotblib, >> my workstation is quad-core and generally fast), certainly slower than >> Eric (I think both are written in Python) >> 2) window management is awful: if you undock an internal subwindow, >> you are forced to not move it again within the area of the main Spyder >> window, otherwise it immediately redocks it >> 3) integrated plot management looks pretty, but (it's entirely not >> Spyder's fault) matplotlib just outputs pictures, so plot navigation >> is still orders of magnitude less evolved than Matlab's (I know it may >> sound silly, but is that so difficult to do something better??) >> on the pros side I count: >> 1) both internal and external console: the former one is useful to do >> experiments within the script you are editing, the latter is better to >> have a clean environment >> 2) variables management and browsing >> 3) enhanced editing (code completion, syntax highlighting, classes >> identification and browsing) > >Very interesting. > >1. How does the speed of the Sage notebook running locally on your >computer compare to Spyder locally on your computer? > >2. Are the plotting issues you mention the result of Spyder embedding >static png images (like the sage notebook does) or something more >subtle. The sage notebook might switch to HTML5 canvas rendering >soon.... I say might, because after having tried it a bunch, I'm >seriously concerned that HTML5 canvas matplotlib is slow -- >surprisingly, maybe much slower than using png's and image maps, which >we should have at least enabled long ago. > >3. I have talked with people about making a Matlab-clone-ish version >of the Sage notebook. This would be web-based, but instead of feeling >Mathematica-like, it would feel much more Matlab-like. Thoughts? > >> >> I don't know what about outside Europe, but I find so strange that >> SAGE is unknown in scientific community, I find it very useful (from >> an engineering point of view), and I personally think that may be a >> perfect solution to be introduced inside universities at first (thanks >> to the wonderful internet-based notebook system). > >I was also very surprised. But it is simply a fact I observed. Well, it >wasn't >so much that Sage is *unknown* -- many people knew about it. What I >noticed at Euroscipy is that very few of the people there used Sage. >Not a single speaker >(except me) said they used Sage, and there were nearly about speakers >(including >lightning talks). > >> The problem I see now regarding scientific computing, is the not so >> seamless integration of numpy-scipy: do you think SAGE may improve >> numpy arrays management with cleaner syntax than regular python? I >> know you are usually against introducing syntax that is unacceptable >> in standard python, but I think that allowing users to avoid writing >> "np.array()" to do any kind of vector manipulation would be highly >> appreciated! > >Yes, this is definitely a Sage goal. I talked a lot about this goal >with Dag last weekend (he's one of the lead Cython developers). > >> I strongly support SAGE for science!! :) > >Thanks. > >> By the way (not completely off-topic) a colleague of mine is having >> some troubles in working with scipy.optimize within SAGE, but I have >> no details right now... I should better check! > >Yep, report it. > >> >> My 2 cents >> >> Thanks >> >> Maurizio >> >> >> On 11 Lug, 20:41, Ondrej Certik <ond...@certik.cz> wrote: >>> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 3:20 AM, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> >>> > 1. IDE's >>> > There are a number of IDEs that can be used for Python development: >>> >>> > * Spyder (free, cross platform) --http://code.google.com/p/spyderlib/ >>> > * Eric (free, cross platform) --http://eric-ide.python-projects.org/ >>> > * PyDev + Eclipse or Aptana (free, cross platform) --http://pydev.org/ >>> > * Wing IDE (non free, but has a 30-day trial) --http://www.wingware.com/ >>> > * XCode (free, closed, OS X only) >>> >>> > I'm at EuroScipy and many of the scientists and engineers giving talks >>> > mention some of these IDE's (especially Spyder). It would be of >>> > interest to make a page athttp://wiki.sagemath.orgabout each of the >>> > above IDE's in the context of Sage. Which can be used with Sage? >>> > How? Do they work on anything but Linux, etc. Any volunteers? This >>> > could be a good student project (so possibly some funding for >>> > something at UW). >>> >>> > 2. Sage at EuroScipy: >>> >>> > Another thing -- though most talks mention Cython, not one single talk >>> > given about actual engineers/scientists doing work even mentioned Sage >>> > -- and there were over 30 talks. Perhaps there is no penetration at >>> > all of Sage into scientific computing, at least in Europe. Perhaps >>> > this will change in the next few years, given that NSF looks highly >>> > likely to fund this NSF granthttp://wstein.org/grants/compmath09/ >>> >>> > Sage was only mentioned in the first keynote by Langtangen, in which >>> > he explained that installing Python for his students is very hard. >>> > His personal solution -- force the students to install Ubuntu, either >>> > natively or in a Virtual Machine. Full stop. >>> >http://picasaweb.google.com/wstein/20100710EuroscipyDay1#549240022431... >>> > He made some (funny) jokes about being a dictator. >>> >>> > I personally disagree with his suggested "solution". Maple, Matlab, >>> > Mathematica do better, and so can we. >>> >>> Yeah, definitely. I am now working at the Lawrence Livermore National >>> Lab during the summer and I don't have a root access to my computer, >>> and it is not running Ubuntu. So his solution would be a complete >>> failure for me. >>> >>> I am running our latest git femhub:http://femhub.org/and that >>> creates me a nice environment, and I use "femhub --shell", which is >>> like "sage -sh", except that the prompt looks better: >>> >>> FEMhub: ond...@raven:~/repos/hermes1d(master)$ >>> >>> Here are the packages that are in femhub: >>> >>> http://femhub.org/codes.php >>> >>> At least for me, it's now doing exactly what I need. >>> >>> Another problem is with gui ---- I couldn't get any working for >>> matplotlib. So I would like to get the html5 canvas working for >>> matplotlib. >>> >>> Also I would like to have some easy way to create guis, it should run >>> in the browser. Using extjs:http://www.sencha.com/products/js/, but >>> I'd like to somehow write it in Python, so that I don't have to mess >>> up with javascript. >>> >>> Ondrej >> >> -- >> To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to >> sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel >> URL: http://www.sagemath.org >> > > > >-- >William Stein >Professor of Mathematics >University of Washington >http://wstein.org > -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
