On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:10:25 +0000, "Dr. David Kirkby" <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote: > It seems to me that Sage version numbers follow the rule, that when last > digit > in X.Y.Z get to 2, then Y is incremented. That is some logic I guess, but it > is > not a sensible one. (I think this is a case of Mathematicians at work)
You are asking for it, so here it is: your argument is a case of what mathematicians call "engineer's induction" -- claim appears to hold in 2 or 3 cases, so it must be a universal truth :). Here are version numbers since 1.0: sage-4.3.tar 260.62 MB 2009-12-24 17:45 sage-4.2.1.tar 258.56 MB 2009-11-14 18:26 sage-4.2.tar 259.19 MB 2009-10-25 06:08 sage-4.1.2.tar 256.41 MB 2009-10-15 01:44 sage-4.1.1.tar 210.48 MB 2009-09-14 07:00 sage-4.1.tar 207.49 MB 2009-07-09 22:16 sage-4.0.2.tar 205.27 MB 2009-06-19 12:46 sage-4.0.1.tar 202.43 MB 2009-06-06 17:16 sage-4.0.tar 204.43 MB 2009-05-31 11:15 sage-3.4.2.tar 206.14 MB 2009-05-12 05:14 sage-3.4.1.tar 208.44 MB 2009-04-22 04:31 sage-3.4.tar 204.55 MB 2009-03-12 05:13 sage-3.3.tar 213.85 MB 2009-02-21 18:50 sage-3.2.3.tar 205.98 MB 2009-01-06 07:09 sage-3.2.2.tar 205.64 MB 2008-12-30 20:24 sage-3.2.1.tar 204.74 MB 2008-12-20 06:28 sage-3.2.tar 203.55 MB 2008-11-20 21:02 sage-3.1.4.tar 202.27 MB 2008-10-20 15:12 sage-3.1.3.tar 202.34 MB 2008-10-14 16:50 sage-3.1.2.tar 196.46 MB 2008-09-20 03:03 sage-3.1.1.tar 190.52 MB 2008-08-17 18:42 sage-3.1.tar 190.51 MB 2008-08-17 03:00 sage-3.0.6.tar 189.49 MB 2008-07-31 03:15 sage-3.0.5.tar 188.25 MB 2008-07-11 18:55 sage-3.0.4.tar 188.22 MB 2008-07-10 08:46 sage-3.0.3.tar 190.18 MB 2008-06-23 18:00 sage-3.0.2.tar 189.86 MB 2008-05-24 23:36 sage-3.0.1.tar 211.71 MB 2008-05-05 13:13 sage-3.0.tar 208.27 MB 2008-04-24 02:49 sage-2.11.tar 195.47 MB 2008-03-31 03:29 sage-2.10.4.tar 189.80 MB 2008-03-18 00:35 sage-2.10.3.tar 184.12 MB 2008-03-11 20:21 sage-2.10.2.tar 209.34 MB 2008-02-23 02:47 sage-2.10.1.tar 205.03 MB 2008-02-03 01:54 sage-2.10.tar 200.56 MB 2008-01-18 23:27 sage-2.9.3.tar 195.65 MB 2008-01-06 08:01 sage-2.9.2.tar 197.76 MB 2008-01-05 14:38 sage-2.9.1.1.tar 196.25 MB 2007-12-25 22:36 sage-2.9.1.tar 201.66 MB 2007-12-24 20:09 sage-2.9.tar 185.48 MB 2007-12-16 15:32 sage-2.8.15.tar 167.35 MB 2007-12-04 07:21 sage-2.8.14.tar 164.90 MB 2007-11-25 07:59 sage-2.8.13.tar 164.87 MB 2007-11-21 21:56 sage-2.8.12.tar 163.28 MB 2007-11-07 15:34 sage-2.8.11.tar 158.24 MB 2007-11-03 00:41 sage-2.8.10.tar 157.32 MB 2007-10-29 04:31 sage-2.8.9.tar 156.71 MB 2007-10-25 08:01 sage-2.8.8.1.tar 156.08 MB 2007-10-21 17:15 sage-2.8.7.2.tar 153.20 MB 2007-10-20 17:44 sage-2.8.7.tar 153.26 MB 2007-10-16 06:05 sage-2.8.6.tar 151.41 MB 2007-10-06 07:25 sage-2.8.5.1.tar 148.39 MB 2007-09-26 16:38 sage-2.8.5.tar 148.40 MB 2007-09-21 08:12 sage-2.8.4.2.1.tar 147.02 MB 2007-09-20 17:01 sage-2.8.4.2.tar 146.40 MB 2007-09-13 21:41 sage-2.8.4.1.tar 145.79 MB 2007-09-09 18:52 sage-2.8.4.tar 145.78 MB 2007-09-07 22:18 sage-2.8.3.6.tar 144.96 MB 2007-09-06 09:33 sage-2.8.3.5.tar 144.91 MB 2007-09-06 01:03 sage-2.8.3.tar 141.80 MB 2007-08-31 15:35 sage-2.8.2.tar 133.31 MB 2007-08-22 17:44 sage-2.8.tar 137.38 MB 2007-08-13 01:18 sage-2.7.3.tar 135.73 MB 2007-08-03 03:05 sage-2.7.2.tar 135.30 MB 2007-07-29 04:19 sage-2.7.1.tar 129.62 MB 2007-07-24 23:44 sage-2.7.tar 114.79 MB 2007-07-20 05:09 sage-2.6.tar 101.22 MB 2007-06-03 05:32 sage-2.5.3.tar 97.91 MB 2007-05-23 01:38 sage-2.5.2.tar 98.24 MB 2007-05-20 17:15 sage-2.5.1.tar 97.52 MB 2007-05-19 17:11 sage-2.5.0.2.tar 96.62 MB 2007-05-11 16:55 sage-2.5.0.1.tar 96.61 MB 2007-05-11 05:56 sage-2.5.tar 96.57 MB 2007-05-09 02:06 sage-2.4.2.tar 92.46 MB 2007-04-13 06:52 sage-2.4.1.2.tar 92.03 MB 2007-03-28 20:25 sage-2.4.1.1.tar 91.88 MB 2007-03-28 05:37 sage-2.4.1.tar 91.88 MB 2007-03-28 02:40 sage-2.4.tar 91.69 MB 2007-03-26 02:34 sage-2.3.tar 88.31 MB 2007-03-06 20:38 sage-2.2.tar 87.19 MB 2007-03-01 01:29 sage-2.1.4.tar 86.89 MB 2007-02-18 06:41 sage-2.1.3.1.tar 85.80 MB 2007-02-17 10:01 sage-2.1.3.tar 85.62 MB 2007-02-16 17:44 sage-2.1.2.tar 85.62 MB 2007-02-16 07:25 sage-2.1.0.1.tar 85.45 MB 2007-02-09 17:05 sage-2.1.tar 85.70 MB 2007-02-09 09:54 sage-2.0.tar 83.96 MB 2007-01-28 14:33 sage-1.9.tar 83.99 MB 2007-01-27 17:54 sage-1.8.2.1.tar 83.38 MB 2007-01-25 05:27 sage-1.8.2.tar 83.38 MB 2007-01-25 04:19 sage-1.8.1.tar 82.84 MB 2007-01-24 05:55 sage-1.8.tar 82.78 MB 2007-01-23 16:55 sage-1.7.1.tar 80.99 MB 2007-01-18 09:42 sage-1.7.tar 81.12 MB 2007-01-16 08:54 sage-1.6.1.tar 77.53 MB 2007-01-14 10:45 sage-1.6.tar 74.30 MB 2007-01-12 15:11 sage-1.5.3.tar 73.74 MB 2007-01-05 19:58 sage-1.5.2.tar 72.01 MB 2007-01-05 00:06 sage-1.5.1.2.tar 72.75 MB 2006-12-16 23:47 sage-1.5.1.1.tar 72.75 MB 2006-12-16 17:57 sage-1.5.1.tar 72.75 MB 2006-12-16 07:31 sage-1.5.0.2.tar 72.72 MB 2006-12-15 06:51 sage-1.4.1.2.tar 64.19 MB 2006-10-19 19:09 sage-1.4.1.1.tar 64.18 MB 2006-10-19 04:36 sage-1.4.1.tar 64.18 MB 2006-10-19 00:42 sage-1.4.tar 63.38 MB 2006-10-06 06:45 sage-1.3.7.3.3.tar 61.45 MB 2006-09-22 01:54 sage-1.3.7.3.2.tar 58.65 MB 2006-09-22 00:57 sage-1.3.7.3.tar 56.45 MB 2006-09-21 11:52 sage-1.3.7.2.tar 60.77 MB 2006-09-12 18:17 sage-1.3.7.1.tar 60.05 MB 2006-09-11 04:58 sage-1.3.7.tar 54.52 MB 2006-09-09 06:48 sage-1.3.6.4.tar 52.55 MB 2006-08-31 20:03 sage-1.3.6.3.tar 51.71 MB 2006-08-13 18:50 sage-1.3.6.2.tar 51.45 MB 2006-08-07 17:15 sage-1.3.6.1.tar 51.31 MB 2006-08-04 09:30 sage-1.3.6.tar 51.30 MB 2006-07-30 12:58 sage-1.3.5.7.tar 51.26 MB 2006-07-28 18:54 sage-1.3.5.6.tar 52.24 MB 2006-07-28 09:30 sage-1.3.5.5.tar 52.12 MB 2006-07-26 03:15 sage-1.3.5.4.tar 50.69 MB 2006-07-21 14:48 sage-1.3.5.3.tar 54.92 MB 2006-07-15 14:21 sage-1.3.5.2.tar 50.27 MB 2006-07-08 15:25 sage-1.3.5.1.tar 49.91 MB 2006-07-05 04:26 sage-1.3.5.tar 49.57 MB 2006-07-04 03:29 sage-1.3.4.2.tar 48.69 MB 2006-06-27 08:41 sage-1.3.4.1.tar 48.69 MB 2006-06-26 20:14 sage-1.3.4.1.0.tar 48.68 MB 2006-06-26 20:08 sage-1.3.4.tar 48.66 MB 2006-06-25 19:14 sage-1.3.3.7.tar 48.67 MB 2006-06-20 19:23 sage-1.3.3.6.tar 48.66 MB 2006-06-19 01:20 sage-1.3.3.5.tar 48.66 MB 2006-06-18 06:58 sage-1.3.3.4.tar 48.65 MB 2006-06-16 07:24 sage-1.3.3.3.tar 48.78 MB 2006-06-12 18:28 sage-1.3.3.2.tar 48.78 MB 2006-06-12 02:26 sage-1.3.3.1.tar 48.78 MB 2006-06-08 22:30 sage-1.3.3.tar 48.54 MB 2006-06-07 02:05 sage-1.3.2.2.tar 48.97 MB 2006-05-28 01:21 sage-1.3.2.1.tar 48.98 MB 2006-05-25 21:22 sage-1.3.2.tar 49.26 MB 2006-05-23 02:05 sage-1.3.1.3.tar 47.87 MB 2006-05-23 02:04 sage-1.3.1.2.tar 48.95 MB 2006-05-19 21:21 sage-1.3.1.1.tar 48.95 MB 2006-05-18 19:04 sage-1.3.1.tar 48.95 MB 2006-05-17 07:17 sage-1.3.0.1.tar 48.92 MB 2006-05-11 22:07 sage-1.3.0.tar 48.92 MB 2006-05-08 20:14 sage-1.2.5.tar 48.74 MB 2006-05-05 07:38 sage-1.2.4.tar 48.63 MB 2006-05-02 10:45 sage-1.2.3.1.tar 48.50 MB 2006-04-22 01:19 sage-1.2.3.tar 48.50 MB 2006-04-21 03:55 sage-1.2.2.tar 48.71 MB 2006-04-18 06:39 sage-1.2.1.tar 50.90 MB 2006-04-14 01:20 sage-1.2.0.tar 46.96 MB 2006-04-07 20:22 sage-1.1.2.tar 42.04 MB 2006-03-15 08:45 sage-1.1.1.tar 42.02 MB 2006-03-13 10:55 sage-1.1.0.tar 42.02 MB 2006-03-10 02:11 sage-1.0.9.tar 42.00 MB 2006-03-07 19:45 sage-1.0.8.tar 42.00 MB 2006-03-07 06:53 sage-1.0.7.tar 39.88 MB 2006-03-03 12:15 sage-1.0.6.tar 39.93 MB 2006-02-26 16:18 sage-1.0.5.tar 39.87 MB 2006-02-21 10:15 sage-1.0.4.tar 39.73 MB 2006-02-17 10:28 sage-1.0.3.tar 39.69 MB 2006-02-13 16:06 sage-1.0.2.tar 39.69 MB 2006-02-13 01:01 sage-1.0.1.tar 39.80 MB 2006-02-10 11:28 sage-1.0.0.1.tar 39.27 MB 2006-02-05 15:47 sage-1.0.0.tar 39.26 MB 2006-02-04 08:50 You will notice plenty of counterexamples to the guessed "rule", e.g. 2.8.15. Silliness aside, I believe that even if the current numbering system is not perfect, an effort is usually made to have the number illustrate the magnitude of the changes. Hundreds of bugs fixed as a result of a particularly succesful Bug Days would not get a new major version. It used to be, until recently, that goals for the next release were discussed on sage-devel. Trac milestones also usually have goals listed. > [...] > > It would however mean that people that wanted a stable release to install on > a > server they can't change every couple of weeks, would chose an X.Y.1, or an > X.Y.2, safe in the knowledge that it should be quite stable, as only bug > fixes > were applied. I'm pretty sure this was discussed at length fairly recently in the context of having "stable" vs "bleeding edge" branches. > If a list of bugs to be fixed in the X.Y.1 or X.Y.2 were published, a user > could > consult that list, and determine if its worth the bother of him/her updating > Sage. They would determine if they are likely to be affected by them, and > not, > they could put off upgrading until there was new functionality added when Y > is > incremented. There are release notes for all releases, with a complete list of closed tickets. The user can consult the list and see (a) what annoying bugs have been fixed and (b) what new functionality was added; this is a good base for making a decision about upgrading or waiting, I think. > That is the approach GCC takes. If we look at the latest 4.4.3, we see > > "This release is a bug-fix release, containing fixes for regressions in GCC > 4.4.2 relative to previous releases of GCC." > > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.4/ > > Wolfram Research do that too, with their X.Y.Z. A major release was > Mathematica > 6. Only bug fixes were applied in 6.0.1 - there was no new functionality. Unfair comparisons. Both GCC and Mathematica are significantly older and more mature than Sage. They can afford to be patient with new functionality, see also below. > I know Sage follows this "release early, release often" scheme, but I'm not > convinced this approach is really going to make Sage a viable alternative to > to > Magma, Maple, Mathematica and Matlab. I feel that the two main obstacles on Sage's path to its stated goal are: 1. The (sometimes complete) lack of functionality in some areas of mathematics 2. The absence of a native Windows port. It saddens me to admit to 2, since I think that Sage is awesome enough that one could go through the trouble of using a virtual machine image under Windows, or even (gasp!) give some flavour of Linux a try, but I think it is nevertheless true. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here (and this goes in the direction of Nick Alexander's post a few days ago), is that without functionality, everything else seems pointless. In the context of stability: if a user upgrades Sage to a new version and this causes some trouble in the form of new bugs, the said user might or might not be put off. However, if a user needs to be able to accomplish a certain task and Sage offers no way of doing so, or it's much worse at it than other software, that person is very likely to not give Sage a try. > Sage 4.0.0 - major new release. Sometime really great has happened. Be > prepared > for some bugs (remember gcc 4.0.4 ?) > Sage 4.0.1 - only bug fixes > Sage 4.0.2 - only bug fixes > Sage 4.0.3 - only bug fixes > Sage 4.1.0 - semi- major release, new functionality. > Sage 4.1.1 - bug fixes only. > Sage 4.2.0 - new functionality. > Sage 4.2.1 - bug fixes only. > > Developers would get their code reviewed, but know that if its contains new > functionality, it will have to wait until Z or Y is incremented before it > will > get in. You probably meant "wait until X or Y is incremented" (that's something else engineers tend to have trouble with -- variable names :). I have an objection to your last statement here: it is already hard enough to get tickets that have new functionality reviewed and merged in a timely fashion, and this results in bitrot and endless rebasing before and throughout the review process. Suppose Sage 5.0.1 was just released, then there could be a handful of releases until a new "major" release comes around. I don't relish the thought of having to keep rebasing my patches waiting for a review, and then most likely having to keep rebasing my patches waiting for the merge -- in fact, I remember Nicolas Thiery going half crazy at some point over the category framework, and eventually sage-combinat got their own branch where they can keep writing new code and periodically push things into the main Sage branch. But this means that Nicolas is now (on a smaller scale) release manager for sage-combinat. Getting back to the point, I believe it is too early in Sage's life to tip the balance in the favour of increased stability *if it comes at the cost of increasing the barrier to including new functionality*. Best, Alex -- Alex Ghitza -- Lecturer in Mathematics -- The University of Melbourne -- Australia -- http://www.ms.unimelb.edu.au/~aghitza/ -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
