On 7 July, 05:03, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is a talk I gave that was about many of the many features Magma
> has that Sage doesn't have:
> http://wstein.org/talks/20090609-sage_and_magma/
>
> Below I'll make a few remarks just because they occurred to me. I'm
> not trying to disagree with anything you wrote.
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Bill Hart<goodwillh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Disadvantages:
> > * It is not as widely used (yet).
>
> It might be worth keeping in mind that Python has a much much wider
> usage base than Mathematica and Matlab, and that Sage can be viewed as
> just a "python library".
I think it would be silly to count all python users as Sage users.
>
> > * There is not a support line IT Services can ring up in the event of
> > difficulties installing it on University systems.
>
> But note that there is a mailing list and irc chat room that IT
> Services can get help from.
>
> It might also be worth noting that in the entire history of the Sage
> project, nobody has ever once asked online or to me personally for a
> phone conversation to help them with anything related to Sage. I.e.,
> nobody has ever written to sage-support or me personally and said "I
> would like phone support. Is there anybody here who would help?"
>
> Looking at the Mathematica web site, I don't think Mathematica comes
> with phone support, by the way, but I'm not 100% sure. It looks like
> you have to buy an add-on service called "Premier Service". I can't
> figure out how much it costs from the Mathematica website, but this
> blog post (http://metcaffeination.net/weblog/2008/11/22/the-next-mathematica/)
> says it costs $750/year.
Guaranteed timely telephone support is something companies like to
see. I'm not certain how useful it actually is.
>
> > * Releases happen so frequently that IT depts. cannot hope to keep up
> > with installing the latest releases.
>
> I wonder how much more often Sage releases are than iTunes releases?
> I just checked and our releases are maybe about twice as frequent as
> iTunes. I'm just pointing out that Sage isn't that unusual with its
> release schedule. It used to be 2 years ago though.
I just checked and the latest Magma installed on our computers by IT
Services is version 2-14.7.
>
> > * It does not have certification for various industrial applications.
>
> What does that mean? Does Mathematica or Matlab have official
> industrial application certifications? If so, should we worry about
> getting certification?
Apparently I can't find anything about this either.
Certification is important though in two other respects. You can get
certification as a user in proficiency in using Maple or Matlab or as
a student using Mathematica. Matlab and probably Maple also come with
tools to help companies achieve certification in certain aspects of
process control.
>
> > * Users are expected to be developers
>
> What does that mean really? It doesn't seem technically meaningful to
> write "Users are expected to be developers". Expected by whom? What
> is a developer?
Dunno, ask the person who said this to me.
>
> > * No glossy printed reference manual
>
> Add "You can't purchase a printed reference manual". There is a
> glossy nice pdf reference manual, but it's not for sale. I have
> printed it out before (for an AMS meeting). We do sell a tutorial
> though, and the royalties (which are nontrivial) go to the Sage
> Foundation account.
>
> > * Few books available in shops about using Sage
>
> In my experience, shops do not have books about the Ma's either. The
> only math software one typically finds books about at say Barnes and
> Noble is "Microsoft Excel". I think I saw a Matlab for Dummies once.
>
> > * Parallel support is very limited if not non-existent
>
> This is true only if it is true of the Python language in general.
> For me, it is just false, especially because I use Sage + parallel
> computing on a regular basis, certainly nearly *every single time* I
> use Sage for any serious research I do a lot of parallel computations.
> Also, even Python 2.6 comes with multiprocessing by default.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Advantages:
>
> > * Fully expressive standard languages (Python and Cython)
> > * Online development and support lists are extremely responsive
> > * Performance is superior for many basic things
> > * Exceptionally strong basics for number theoretical development
> > * Open source
> > * Bugs are documented and reporting bugs is encouraged
> > * Ability to optimise code with Cython
> > * Ability to make use of external third party python libraries (which
> > are extensive)
> > * Free to download
> > * Interface to other CAS systems
>
> > Bill.
>
> > On 6 July, 08:56, "Dr. David Kirkby" <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote:
> >> I made a few changes to the Wikipedia page,
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sage_(mathematics_software)
>
> >> to push the 'features' further up the list. I also added a section on
> >> advantages/disadvantages of Sage. Just sticking advantages will lead to
> >> their deletion, as it wont be a neutral point of view.
>
> >> I'd like to get similar information on the Wikipedia pages for the 3 M's
> >> too, but it needs to be objective.
>
> >> Jon McLoone is a Wolfram Research employee who is an advertising manager
>
> >>http://members.wolfram.com/jonm/
>
> >> he goes over the Wikipedia page with a fine tooth comb, so any
> >> comparisons with Sage need to be objective. (He will probably try to get
> >> them deleted anyway), but IMHO, a Wikipedia page on Mathematica should
> >> list alternatives, in the same way I've stuck on the Sage page. But as I
> >> say, these need to be objective.
>
> --
> William Stein
> Associate Professor of Mathematics
> University of Washingtonhttp://wstein.org
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