This vote is really a showcase of flawed governance. 0. The very premise, that somehow the developers are entitled to the status quo of the development infrastructure, is fundamentally flawed. As a reminder, the current status quo was established just over a year ago in the Trac-to-GitHub migration, and continues to be refined in numerous PRs by the few individuals who are engaged in discussing, developing, and testing such refinements.
1. As I have already pointed out, it's simply a false claim that in the past (pre-GitHub) the changes to the details of the development infrastructure were widely discussed and voted on in the past. Such changes have always been made by the volunteer admins individually or based on internal discussions, never on sage-devel. In contrast, the change made here was developed and discussed in the open -- in a Pull Request. This is an improvement over how things have been done in the past. 2. Developers who take an interest in discussing development infrastructure know how to engage with it. "Proper" discussions of the development infrastructure _are_ happening -- in public, namely among those who have been take a sufficient interest in participating in it. 3. The vote was called even though my key points raised in the previous discussion were entirely ignored. 4. The options presented in the vote were cherry-picked, - to include strawmen (whitelisting, blacklisting users -- which obviously no one would be interested in implementing), - to exclude relevant proposed changes from my messages. 5. Also my messages pointing out the flaws in the procedure were entirely ignored, without even any acknowledgment. 6. Finally, the idea that after a vote has ended, someone has the duty to implement it, is fundamentally flawed. On Wednesday, July 3, 2024 at 5:51:48 AM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote: > On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 11:35:37 PM UTC+9 Matthias Koeppe wrote: > > It really does not work this way. > > This is how we have always done things when there is a dispute, we vote on > it. You might not like the result, but there is a clear consensus after a > vote and discussion. > > I am happy to have a discussion with you on how to improve things, but I > think we should start with the status quo. Additionally, IMO this change > really should have had a proper discussion on sage-devel before it was > merged. > > Best, > Travis > > > On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 7:21:34 PM UTC-7 Travis Scrimshaw wrote: > > Sorry for the delayed response due to conference travel. > > Vote count: > > (A1) 5 > (A3) 1 > (B) 1ish > > As such, please remove this automatic labeling of PR sizes. > > We can have a proper discussion about how to make it easier for newcommers > to find good PRs to review, but we should actually have that discussion > before adding such features. > > Best, > Travis > > On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 3:19:45 PM UTC+9 seb....@gmail.com wrote: > > > *The feature might have been wrongly guided* > > I'm sorry, that was my mistake (see my recent comment > <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262#issuecomment-2172370992>in > #37262 <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/37262>). This caused that > there is a difference between B and B7. > > > *Nevertheless, it would be very unwelcoming to just revert it.* > > This is the motivation behind Option A3. > > > Vincent Delecroix schrieb am Samstag, 15. Juni 2024 um 08:52:00 UTC+2: > > On the material side I vote (A1). > > On the human side I vote (B). Matthias raised a delicate point: this > feature was introduced by a newcomer to sage development. The feature > might have been wrongly guided or badly thought. Nevertheless, it > would be very unwelcoming to just revert it. > > Ideally, there would be a "make the feature even nicer" solution > rather than "get rid of that s***". Though, this requires a concrete > proposal more than a vote, and I have nothing magical to share at this > stage. > > Best > Vincent > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2024 at 13:56, Kwankyu Lee <ekwa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > +1 to (A1) > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/cd9f975b-3605-4e98-a165-2a2e1d4ab2b9n%40googlegroups.com. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/edbab313-b596-4b6a-b5fa-f354d7894129n%40googlegroups.com.
