On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 09:30:31 +0100 Lorenzo Sutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi Philip, > >Thank you so much for looking into this! > >On 05/02/22 16:58, Philip Leishman wrote: >> Hmm... >> The behaviour in the matrix editor comes from the SegmentNotationHelper >> makeNotesViable call. >> So if the collapse from the matrix editor doesn't make this call ..... >> Of course things will look strange in the notation editor. >> I have made a version which doesn't make that call from the matrix editor. >> Thoughts ??? > >I'm honestly not sure. From a UX point of view (personal opinion), as >said I think the matrix and notation editors are different environments >with different use cases potentially within an overall workflow of >working with a piece. > >The notation editor is great for, well, inputting notation be it because >a user feels more comfortable with it, but I think also depending on the >type of piece etc. It is also a great starting point for actually >preparing a score, a pretty unique feature of Rosegarden as a sequencer >(especially in linux-land). There tied notes absolutely make sense. > >The matrix editor is somewhat 'lower-level' and more related to the >actual workings of MIDI. Older people like me are also familiar with >trackers and the concept of a note as a start,duration,end event in a >timeline (be it vertical or horizontal). The 'notation' of matrix >editors is pretty intuitive and I've always found having 'tied' notes in >it rather confusing. Matrix editor is really the fastest way of >sequencing, especially certain types of music, if you know what you're >doing. > >I understand that there seems to be a lower-level code 'connection' >between the two with tied notes, but I'm not sure why one would even >want the concept of tied notes in the matrix. A tied note is just a >notation convention for representing a longer note with shorter values, >be it for performers' readability (e.g. it can make sense to have a 1/2 >starting on the 2/2 of a 4/4 measure represented as two 1/4 tied notes), >or for longer notes spanning multiple measures, etc. > >Again, from a purely user perspective I just never grasped why tied >notes in the matrix. Maybe I'm missing something. The only use case for >it would be entering notes in the matrix with the final aim of producing >a score and therefore wanting to make explicit certain notation elements >from the matrix... But then one could argue that you should be able to >represent dotted notes (which you can consider 'syntactic sugar' for >tied notes borrowing from coding...) etc. etc. > >CCing the list so maybe we can have other opinions :-) > >Lorenzo > >> See merge request >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *[bugs:#1575] <https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1575/> >> Inconsistent Collapse Equal pitch notes in matrix editor* >> >> *Status:* closed >> *Group:* None >> *Labels:* matrix >> *Created:* Tue Apr 14, 2020 04:19 PM UTC by Lorenzo >> *Last Updated:* Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:17 PM UTC >> *Owner:* Philip Leishman >> *Attachments:* >> >> * matrix_editor_collapse.mp4 >> >> <https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1575/attachment/matrix_editor_collapse.mp4> >> (1.3 MB; video/mp4) >> >> While this was somewhat addressed in [bugs:#1495] >> <https://sourceforge.net/p/rosegarden/bugs/1495/> , unfortunately this >> behaviour still seems problematic in the *matrix editor* with notes to >> be 'collapsed' >> >> What I mean is, try this: >> >> * In the Matrix editor >> * create two notes that 'touch each other (e.q. 1/4 notes), one on the >> last quarter of a bar, one on the first one of the next >> * Select both notes >> * Do Adjust > Collapse equal pitch notes >> >> As a result the notes (because they are in different bars), actually get >> /tied/ which is fine in the notation editor but IMHO not fine in the >> matrix editor. Especially 'tied' notes in the matrix editor have two bad >> side effects: >> 1. if you try to increase or decreas the duration of the 'tied' note the >> notes are split and individually resized. This is conceptually and >> musically wrong in the matrix editor because tied notes are just a >> graphical convention, while in the matrix view we are looking at them as >> events. >> 2. The behaviour of the Collapse equal pitch notes is not consistent >> because *if* the notes are in the same bars collapsing will create a >> unique bigger note as expected; if they are across bars the Collapse >> equal pitch notes function will actually do what Phrase > Tie does (also >> a function in the matrix editor). >> >> So I think there are 3. options: >> 1. In the *matrix editor* Collapse Equal-pitch notes does what it says >> which in matrix editor context means join the notes and make a new big >> note from them as long as they are adjacent and regardless of being in >> different bars or not. the typical use case is editing a string part in >> the matrix editor and wanting to join notes which span bars for voicing. >> In this case the former functionality is still retained with the 'Tie' >> command which more intuitively ties notes if they span bars >> 2. Create a new 'join equal pitch' functionality which taken selected >> equal pitch notes joins them into one note. An added possibility of this >> could be that it would work also for non-adjacent notes. But I'm not >> sure if this would really be useful (might be confusing) >> 3. Retain the current behaviour /but/ allow the user to change the >> duration of 'tied' notes globally. >> >> personally I'd prefer 1 or 2 (without the non adjacent notes behaviour) >> Just noticed this topic... I wonder if this is related to a problem I get sometimes. I work exclusively in the matrix editor. Usually having recorded a real-time performance. If I then change the time signature I frequently get a bunch of notes broken up into (apparently) random sized bits, and it's a nightmare to put them all together again. -- Will J Godfrey https://willgodfrey.bandcamp.com/ http://yoshimi.github.io Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. _______________________________________________ Rosegarden-user mailing list [email protected] - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
