Stephen,
Please allow me to add something to this public discussion which is a bit
candid but not intended as mean-spirited or unhelpful.
You may not realize it (or you may disagree) but I think the consensus is
that lists and Internet news groups are a resource of LAST resort after one
has exhausted all other available means. And they don't exist to provide
tutorials or primers; you are going to have to look at websites, books, and
other documents (or pay for instruction). So that means that you are going
to need a good grasp of things like Linux in general, network
administration, security administration, etc. (from books and documents or
from lurking in news groups/mailing lists or from just playing with Linux
and it's source) before you can use Internet resources to help you do
something advanced like build a firewall. If you want someone to spend a
lot of time for you (e.g., providing good responses to very vague questions
or teaching you how to implement their answer) I think you are going to
need to pay them for their time (or be unsatisfied).
Someone (Hall Burgiss?) has this in his sig which sums it up nicely:
"Linux helps those who help themselves"
You probably do not mean it this way, but with all due respect and IMHO,
your posts seem to me to betraying the altruism of list members. When you
have a big pile of information (like you did) and you ask an illegible
question about a couple pointers, it wastes the time of the people who read
your message and especially the helpful ones who try to respond. What
pointers did you expect (that you do not already have handy)? Asking
direct questions about a narrow issue is not only more likely to get
results but no one will feel like you are wasting their time. When you ask
a question as described below, it makes it clear that you have spent a lot
of time researching and trying to answer a question and are prepared to use
whatever info the respondent takes the time to provide.
Finally, when you post (or crosspost) your questions to lists that have
nothing to do with your requests, it is likely to be disruptive and
unproductive.
So, here's a recipe for using Internet discussions as a resource (of last
resort):
(1) Try all other means of solving the problem yourself. Read (reread)
relevant books, man pages, web pages, documentation, etc. Perhaps, play
with the software to see if you can solve it by trial and error. Do a
search on deja.com, searchlinux.com or elsewhere to see if someone has
already solved the problem or can give you clues to solve it yourself.
(2) Tell the group what you are doing what exactly is not working/is a
problem, and ask your ONE question. Write the post as clearly and
concisely as possible but include whatever detail you feel might be helpful.
(3) Give it a proper 5-10 word subject that is descriptive and informative.
In general, you should spend much more time researching and writing the
post than the respondents will answering. As an example of relevance, a
firewall query would not list "web server" as the subject.
(4) Then post it to a single (or maybe two) group/list that is RELEVANT to
the subject. For example, web server would go to one of the apache mailing
lists or to the news group (IIRC) comp.infosys.www.unix.servers. For
information about red hat and security, the red hat security list jumps to
mind. Your research may include a posting asking where to post about a topic.
I might add this:
(1.1) scan the group/list or it's FAQ for an existing answer to your
question (many times FAQs are ignored or someone --perhaps rudely--tells
you to RTFM or RTFF) and while you're scanning, if you can answer an
unanswered question, do so. I think you are much more likely to get
answers if you also contribute.
(1.2) You may decide that your query isn't appropriate (e.g., "Can someone
please explain firewalls and their implementation to me in detail?") but
you might still ask something like, "Hey, I need a firewall ASAP. What
book or website our you recommend?".
-Alan
At 07:19 PM 12/19/99 +0800, SML wrote:
>Hi Charles,
>
>Thanks for your advice and comment.
>
>In fact I have bundles of technical documents in my possession including:-
>
>- Configuring an Internet Firewall and Home LAN with Linux by Robert L.
>Zicgler
>- Armoring Linux by Lance Spitzner
>- Firewall installation
>- Pump-done
>- Security programs
>- Linux IPCHAINS-HOWTO
>
>etc. and many others including Firewall-howto and Sendmail.howto, all
>printed out. In addition, I go through the mailing lists daily and save
>down all documents relating to security, firewall, servers, etc.
>Unfortunately the more I read on the documents the more confusion I have.
>It is not easy to find a specific answer from heaps of documents. May-be I
>got long time experience on Windows environment familiar with graphic
>interface and I changed to Linux in less than 4 months ago. There will be a
>lot for me to learn. What I expect from the lists is some guys can give a
>hint from where I can find a answer in short time, not going to the wrong
>direction.
>
>Anyhow I am very appreciated for your comment. Thanks.
>
>Best Regards
>Stephen
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charles Galpin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 12:04 AM
>Subject: Re: Resend: Web server
>
>
>> Stephen
>>
>> I would like to explain why you are not getting a response to the messages
>> you are posting to this and other lists.
>>
>> This and most other requests you post are too vague or broad, and show
>> that you have not made any attempt to begin to find the answer yourself.
>>
>> If you go to the redhat website or any website mirroring the linux
>> documentation project (LDP) you can search for these topics, or with a
>> little amount of effort browse a table of contents to find information on
>> these topics. Also if you install the howto rpm, you will have many HOWTO
>> documents on your hard drive under /usr/doc/HOWTO. You can look fire
>> howtos that have names that match these keywords
>>
>> BIG HINT /usr/doc/HOWTO/Firewall-HOWTO
>> BIG HINT /usr/doc/HOWTO/Mail*-HOWTO
>>
>> or use the grep command to search for keywords in the HOWTO files.
>>
>> At the very least these HOWTOs will give you an rough idea of what you
>> want to do, and give you pointers to other sources of information. It may
>> be enough to help you without having to ask any questions at all, but
>> once you have read up on the topic, feel free to ask the list more
>> specific questions.
>>
>> I will tell you this. Enabling both of these is not like turning a
>> switch. It will require you to have a basic understanding of how they
>> work, and some configuration based on that understanding. And it will not
>> be that way on *any* of the distributions.
>>
>> If I may offer one more piece of advice (unrelated to this message) -
>> don't ask how to find and download other distributions, and what features
>> they contain on redhat lists. Go to the website for those distributions
>> and find the information there, or sign up on their email lists.
>>
>> I hope this helps you.
>>
>> charles
>
>
>--
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>
>
---
Alan D. Mead / Research Scientist / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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