You've had the nerve (or the innocence 8^) to expose the "elephant" in the middle of the living room.
<rant> Among all the high fives and rah-rahing on this list (and other Linux lists I belong to) about Linux vs Windows there are some things most of us would seem to rather ignore. Linux people have there own version of FUD going. Flame bait?! I don't think so. Here are a few truths we hold self evident. Myth #1 - Stability. Linux is a more stable OS then windows (2000/XP). This true enough, UNLESS you're talking about desktop Linux ie: KDE or Gnome. To believe that any "out of the box" install of any current major distro setup as a desktop (KDE or Gnome) is more stable than an equivalent install of XP or 2000 on the same hardware is plain NUTS! I've never worked with an OS where so many apps crash and burn on a regular basis! Mozilla just stopped loading, don't ask why, it's Linux! Evolution crashing and burning...can't be, it's Linux. Want to start doing all kinds of multimedia, better start reading and learning patience. I can't remember that last time any major app broke on me in Windows. Myth #2 - Speed - Plain fact is, Windows is faster than KDE or Gnome on equivalent hardware...no way around it and there is no TWEAKING that is going to change that! Get a $200 Celeron 800 with 128 megs of ram and some 8 meg video card running Windows 2000 and it will be so much more faster than any current Linux "desktop" distro on the same hardware that it's not even a joke. The great failing of Linux as a desktop distro (IMNSHO) is of course X. X was a bad kludge to start with, but it worked sort of to allow remote gui interaction with a host system. it's not getting any better with age. For Linux to really take on the desktop space I believe someone(s) going to have to write a NEW graphic layer subsystem for Linux. But there doesn't seem to even be a hint of that (that I'm aware of) going on. If so, please let me know. This leads to a sub myth. People who write windows code suck at it, esp. MS programmers. To my old eyes the graphic subsystem of Windows is a work of art compared to X I really HATE X - it truly sucks in every way imaginable! The other issue that hardly ever gets referred to in the great OS debate is the gui itself. True, Linux has improved greatly with font anti-aliasing, TT fonts, etc. But the display still is no match for windows in terms of viewability. Take a joe user and sit him in front of your choice of Linux distros for four hours and then do that with Windows. Ask joe use which display he'd rather sit in front of all day...not even close. </rant> I Love Linux, for what it is, and what it is currently is NOT a replacement desktop OS for either joe user or joe corporate user. It could be I guess. But not this year. Heck, I don't really even care if it does become the "competition" to Windows. Jeez...crazy me! Regards, Mike Wafkowski Linux user since 1995 Mostly as a server OS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RedHat user mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:59 PM Subject: Linux desktop speed... > I have been using Linux on the desktop at work and home for the past 18 > months and I really like it. However, at times it is woefully slow to do > anything. > > ==================================================================== > Current work PC specification: > > Duron 1.3 > 256Mb RAM > 512Mb swap space > 30Gb 5400RPM IDE HDD with no slave device > Red Hat 9 (Shrike) Workstation installation and all current updates > 2.4.20-18.9 kernel > > Time comparisons are between the Red Hat box and another PC on my desk > running Win2K with Celeron 900, 256K RAM and 5400RPM 30Gb HDD and no slave > device. > > No performance tweaking of either OS has been performed. > > Typical usage has 4 or 5 windows open running Galeon, Gnome-terminal, > Xchat, gFTP etc, and I have timed the following. Note: these are typically > "cold-load" times and are not cached due to a recent load action. > > Starting OpenOffice Writer 1.02 on Shrike can sometimes take OVER A > MINUTE, which is ridiculous. > Word97 on Win2K takes around 5 seconds to start. > > Evolution (my chosen email client, running imap) on Shrike takes nearly 40 > seconds to start and become usable, and often up to 15 seconds to close. I > have not been able to compare to Outlook, but Evolution seems to cause > serious havoc with Red Hat as it consumes a lot of resources and causes > large slow-downs at times. I have a suspicion that the imap server/mail > protocol may be at fault as POP does seem a little happier. > > Kmail 1.5 on Shrike takes around 50 seconds from start to becoming usable. > Outlook Express 6 on Win2K takes about 6 seconds to become usable. > > Mozilla 1.2.1 on Shrike takes 23 seconds to start and become usable. > Mozilla 1.3a on Win2K takes less than 10 seconds. This is a new startup and > not using the preload of Mozilla under Windows. > > Mozilla Mail 1.21 on Shrike takes about 13 seconds. > Mozilla Mail 1.3a on Win2K takes about 6 seconds. This is a new startup and > not using the preload of Mozilla under Windows. > > Nautilus 2.2.1 on Shrike takes around 30 seconds to become usable. > Windows Explorer on Win2K takes around 4 seconds to load and be usable. > ==================================================================== > > The HD light is usually on hard as applications load, indicating heavy use > of the swap file. > > These are fairly typical figures and you can see a clear and consistant > speed difference between the two systems. At times, if I have a few extra > windows open, Linux is just unusable as it swaps heavily to the hard disk. > At these times, I often just go and get a coffee as it can sometimes take > MINUTES to recover. Yes, it is a very stable OS and basically never > actually "crashes" - at least not in the Windows sense. But I have found > that applications like Evolution do crash and/or become unusable far too > often, and this constant HD swapping is VERY wearisome, as I often have to > wait until the system catches up with me before I can go on. By > comparison, the other PC on my desk running Win2K doesn't suffer from > these annoying lags AT ALL in my experience so far (~12 months). > > With the exception of Evolution, once these applications are cached the > system does run a little better, but still not quite as well as Win2K with > cached applications. Evolution with imap doesn't run "easily" any time > from my experience. > > I have read of some application loading speed improvements in the Linux > 2.6 kernel, so perhaps that may make a difference. It will need to, as I > have been trying to get Linux into my workplace, but I know that the > majority of the staff will be unhappy with the performance as it currently > stands. > > My desktop experience extends from 7.2, 7.3, 8.0 and now 9. They have all > been pretty standard Workstation installlations with no tweaking at all, > and they have all been patched with the current updates, and they have all > exhibited the same slow-speed problem. > > The above times are taken on my work PC. At home I have an > XP2000/512Mb/Voodoo III 3500 and it is a little better, but still somewhat > slower than my wife's Win98/256K/Duron 1300 PC. > > >From my viewpoint, Linux may be ready for the desktop from an application > support/availability perspective, but it is certainly not ready from a > speed perspective. > > The server is a much different story, and I have been installing it since > 5.1. Without the overhead of a GUI, it is an EXCELLENT platform and why > anyone would choose Windows over Linux on the server is a mystery to me. > > I would welcome any comments/advice/hints as I am really committed to > Linux and Red Hat and *really* don't like Windows any more as it's so > limiting. > > Regards, > Brad > > > -- > redhat-list mailing list > unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 6/1/03 -- redhat-list mailing list unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
