On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, John Summerfield wrote:
>> Honestly though, a new user nowadays to Linux, is almost 95% or
>> more likely to try it out with either GNOME or KDE. They are
>> highly likely to discover the help system in each and will find
>> the manpages and info docs right there. If they read the stuff
>
>Ah yes.
>
>I'm in GNOME today, just for a change;-)
>
>I start up the help browser; you're right, it's easy to find.
Yip.
>oh dear. The Red Hat Manuals ren't installed (they were not on the single-CD
>RHL package I got off a magazine).
Thats too bad. The mag should have given all the CD's. It is
not very useful to distribute a CD with a mag to potential new
users without documentation. Bad decision by the magazine IMHO.
>We'll skip the GNOME manuals for now.
And end up learning on own, and wondering how to do stuff
possibly. Knowing how to get to them later though if need be.
>Why do we have "Man pages" and "Info Pages' (I'm a newbie, remember). Not to
>worry.
>
>Clicks "Man pages."
>Clicks "User commands."
>WHaaaaaaat?
Ok, fair enough.
>Scrolls down. Hoo. Silly bees have arranged names across the page. Don't
>people generally find it easier to read down? I do.
So do I, but that is just personal preference. Maybe there is an
option to change that. If not, not hard to implement later on...
>Now, where's the copy command? convert, convfont, coverpg. What no COPY?
>
>backs up.
>Clicks "Info pages."
>Let's see... configure, cpio. No copy there either.
>
>Sheesh.
The copy command? The user would most likely use gmc to do that
stuff. It works just like Windows explorer for the most
part. That would be the intuitive first guess. New windows
users don't go into windows help looking for DOS commands, and
new Linux users will likely not look at manpages unless they need
to too. ditto for info. Most of that stuff is non-GUI and most
new users will likely want to stay in-GUI.
>Now, you and I know I wanted the "cp" commmand, but I well recall my first
>experience of Linux.
As do I. Ditto.
>I'd previously uses TSO, TSS, DOS and OS/2. All have a copy command and a help
>command (drdos has anyway).
Yep. Agreed.
>I telnetted to my shell account on my IAP's box and looked around. About the
>only command I could find was "help," and that wasn't very helpful.
But a new user to any OS is to expect some learning curve. new
DOS users have no idea how to copy files either unless you show
them first, or point out how to learn. That is no different
really. "copy" is more intuitive, but that doesn't mean someone
will know to use it. The CLI of any OS is totally new stuff for
anyone not familiar with CLI's.
Most new users won't be doing CLI stuff if they can avoid it, so
learning any CLI is going to require asking questions with humans
or reading a book. Back in DOS 3 and ever since, most new users
I've ever seen have been unable to use DOS for even copying
files, deleting, etc.. People in general aren't that CLI
friendly. Most people don't grok the concept of explicit and
implicit pathnames and filenames, and will do:
[cwd == /root]
cd /downloads
mkdir temp
unzip file.zip temp
cd temp
unzip file.zip
Instead of:
[cwd == /root]
mkdir /downloads/temp
unzip /downloads/file.zip -d /downloads/temp
Or something like:
../../bin/myprog ../../../thisfile > ../output/
No concept of relative or absolute paths being used anywhere a
filename or path can be given. They always use cd to go to the
final location, and mv an cp to put stuff there needlessly.
That drives me nuts as it is so simple. But it ISNT simple for
someone new. I cant understand it, but 99% of people can't grok
the concept... Doesn't matter what OS it is.
One thing is for sure though. New people to computers tend to
not learn commandlines. Some do, but they are the exception and
any CLI will have a similar learning curve. In Linux though,
they can learn how to do lots of powerful things that aren't at
all possible in a stock DOS environment by far.
If they are trying to use the CLI in Linux, typing "help" gives
some info on how to get started. The first few days might be
steep, but likewise in Windows. Where is DOS help in
Windows? Undocumented AFAIK. No "HELP". In 6.22 there was, but
not in 95 and later. If it is, I've never found it.
We seem to be going OT a lot lately... ;o) Maybe we should chat
via private mail on replies.. over virtual beers. ;o)
--
Mike A. Harris Linux advocate
Computer Consultant GNU advocate
Capslock Consulting Open Source advocate
Try out Red Hat Linux today: http://www.redhat.com
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2/
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