On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Nitebirdz wrote:
>> > However, if the OS is CLI-based, then I'd better know the exact
>> > command I'm supposed to enter and all its flags, ect.
>>
>> That's not true. There are definately ways to discover ways to do
>> things on a CLI. I certainly don't know exactly how to do everything
>> I do every day, but I somehow manage to figure them out, using a CLI.
>>
>
>I disagree again. We cannot seriously compare the use of a Help page
>written in SGML to the manual pages. For one thing, in order to even
>check the manual pages you already have to know about the existence of the
>"man" command and even the name of the command whose manual page you want
>to read.
Here's the funny part. Everyone says how GNU info is the GNU
project's official documentation format. A new user without a
clue where to get help, is likely to guess at a few things. One
of the most likely "guesses" is to type "help".
3 root@asdf:~# help
GNU bash, version 1.14.7(1)
Shell commands that are defined internally. Type `help' to see
this list. Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'.
Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general.
A star (*) next to a name means that the command is disabled.
%[DIGITS | WORD] [&] . filename
: [ arg... ]
alias [ name[=value] ... ] bg [job_spec]
bind [-lvd] [-m keymap] [-f filena break [n]
They might then try "info bash" as suggested by the help command.
File: features.info, Node: Top, Next: Bourne Shell Features,
Prev: (DIR), U\p: (DIR)
Bash Features
*************
Bash contains features that appear in other popular shells,
and some features that only appear in Bash. Some of the shells
that Bash has borrowed concepts from are the Bourne Shell (`sh'),
the Korn Shell (`ksh'), and the C-shell (`csh' and its successor,
`tcsh'). The following menu breaks the features up into
categories based upon which one of these other shells inspired
the feature.
This manual is meant as a brief introduction to features found
in Bash. The Bash manual page should be used as the definitive
reference on shell behavior.
The last paragraph here says the man page is the definitive
reference but of course doesn't say how to access it. So here we
have a GNU program claiming the man page is official definitive
reference.
Which is it? info or manpage? Often people are told the info
docs are definitive. It is NOT 100% though. How does one know
which to look at?
Honestly though, a new user nowadays to Linux, is almost 95% or
more likely to try it out with either GNOME or KDE. They are
highly likely to discover the help system in each and will find
the manpages and info docs right there. If they read the stuff
they'll learn. The default web browser page links to tonnes of
online documentation and learning aids.
The main problem I see is not knowing where something is
documented to start with. Is is manpage/info/html or
nonexistant. Especially confusing when one manpage references
another nonexistant one.
>Again, I'm a big supporter of Linux and open source in general.
>I am _convinced_ that Linux will sooner or later win the
>desktop market too. However, I cannot in good faith deny that
>Windows is more user-friendly right now. The price to pay?
>Less power, of course. Not only that, but you're limited to
>whichever options the desginer of the GUI decided to add to
>his/her tool.
Agreed. My mother just recently started using a 486 I gave her
with no graphics available. She's using "lynx", "pine" and
"mc" having NEVER used a computer EVER before. She PREFER's
oddly enough to use these programs over Netscape, and X. She
fumbles around, but likes it better than using a mouse. She uses
a mouse like a child takes first steps. She couldn't click the
mouse on a 3 inch icon and get it to do anything. I can't for
the life of me get her to connect with the thing. So I set up
lynx/etc.. on a menu program (pdmenu), and threw a "connect to
internet" and "disconnect from internet" on there. She looks at
the help in Lynx, Pine and is getting aroudn ok.
She thinks Windows is hard when she visits me and uses my
computer. She wishes to use Lynx instead. Just shows that user
friendly is very very very relative to WHO the user is. She is
probably the least experienced computer user imaginable. Granted
the CLI would kill her for sure, but that is besides the
point. It depends on a given persons own thought processes what
is easy and what is not. An individual thing.
TTYL
--
Mike A. Harris Linux advocate
Computer Consultant GNU advocate
Capslock Consulting Open Source advocate
Try out Red Hat Linux today: http://www.redhat.com
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2/
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