William, I commented on this post to share what I’ve seen over the years from the manufacturing side, particularly when it comes to warranty.
It’s important to remember that warranty coverage is intended for manufacturing defects. It’s not meant to be a catch-all solution for damage caused by misuse, neglect, or operating conditions outside the product’s design limits—even though some end users may view it that way. If this truly is a manufacturing defect, then it should be covered. In a perfect world, these situations would always be handled at no cost to the customer. We don’t live in a perfect world, and no matter what company you’re dealing with, the accountants ultimately rule. Most manufacturers do not cover costs such as removal, reinstallation (R&R), or shipping. Those expenses vary widely and can’t be controlled or predicted at the time of manufacture. It’s similar to how companies advertise 15-, 20-, or 25-year warranties, but the list of exclusions often ends up being longer than Al Capone’s rap sheet. And in some segments of the industry, companies don’t even last the full term of the warranties they advertise. Another reality—especially with power electronics—is that a large percentage of returns initially believed to be warranty claims (often 80% or more) ultimately turn out to be non-warranty or “no fault found” situations. A couple of years ago, I worked with an installer and homeowner on a flooded battery bank that was less than two years old. Two of the 2V cells were running hotter than the rest. The remaining cells were also warmer than normal, which led me to suspect they may have been run dry. After discussions with both parties, we replaced two batteries and returned them to the dealer. I later traveled to the site and tore the batteries down to determine the cause of failure. Not only had they been run dry, but they had been run dry multiple times and for extended periods. Despite being told repeatedly by both the installer and homeowner that the batteries had never been run dry, the internal evidence clearly showed otherwise. Just a few months ago, we replaced an S12-200LFP battery for a customer under warranty; it was less than eight months old. When the dealer received the battery, he called to say it was full of seawater. The battery had been installed on a boat; something happened to the vessel, and it sat submerged long enough for water to penetrate the case. And no, these batteries are not submersible. I share these examples not to point fingers, but to illustrate why manufacturers approach warranty claims cautiously. From their perspective, they regularly encounter failures that initially appear to be defects but ultimately trace back to operating conditions, maintenance practices, or environmental exposure. At the end of the day, companies write policies the way they do because they’re trying to manage risk and stay in business. I don’t know of many companies that fully cover R&R and transport costs. There are some, but they generally don’t cover the full amount. Those costs don’t disappear—they’re absorbed somewhere in the system and, much like tariffs, tend to work their way back to the homeowner one way or another. Steve. On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 10:22 PM William Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > Steve: > > > > If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the > product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck > with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held > accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for > being parsimonious. > > > > William Miller > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM > *To:* Jason Szumlanski > *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs > > > > Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. > It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking > with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. > Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret > Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. > > As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations > like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a > profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. > > From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go > out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. > Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not > carefully managed. > > One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at > least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you > live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost > more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone > chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. > > The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront > isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn > some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger > problems down the road. > > It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering > good service — and there’s no perfect answer. > > Steve Higgins > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. > > > I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on > distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, > and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each > level of the supply chain takes a hit. > > > > It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that > continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who > had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us > credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently > assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company > truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on > more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the > failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still > assist us today. > > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite > me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal > experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official > position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. > > I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the > old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 > years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper > management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if > something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the > shipping costs under that warranty. > > One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to > control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a > company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed > properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the > company a black eye. > > A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live > in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations > — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can > be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the > cost of the product itself. > > The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind > our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot > reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s > geographic location. > > That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better > understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting > customers and maintaining financial responsibility. > > At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically > piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do > this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly > to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse > to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. > > There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can > get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without > loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. > > Steve Higgins. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches <[email protected]> wrote: > > Bill for everything ! > > > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* > > *"we go where powerlines don't"* > > * <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ > <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>* > > *e-mail [email protected] <[email protected]>* > > *text 209 813 0060* > > > > On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal > of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone > knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me > know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > > > Laura Conchelos > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > Monte Vista CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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