Jay:
3R is for protection from falling water, like rain or dripping water. This is not protection against spraying water. NEMA 4 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_enclosure_types> is for protection from spraying water. More random thoughts about the discussion that may or may not be relevant: · The original post indicated there are practical reasons not to proceed with the project. Coupled with the engineers reticence it seems another option or some mitigation is called for. · To be a good engineer one must be a good communicator. It was said the engineer closed off discussion. It may be he presented his best case as to why not and now wants to move on. · If the sole objection the engineer had was based on code compliance, it sounds like the engineer may not have a watertight case (pun intended). · Design work is all about decision making. I ask myself: 1. Is it safe? 2. Is it legal? Ideally both answers are Yes. If 1 is a No then it is time for a redesign. If 1 is Yes and 2 is No and there is no easy alternative to the design I try to get a waiver. I might talk with the building department or Fire Marshall and make my case. · Maybe it’s time to think inside the box: Could a removable spray hood be fitted over the pump? William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jay [mailto:[email protected]] *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:22 AM *To:* [email protected]; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8 If the equipment is 3R outdoor rated then it should be fine. Otherwise I do like the partition idea. A story I recently heard from a buddy was almost exactly the same situation and an earthquake broke the line after the pressure pump that sprayed water directly into the 2 Outback vfx inverters. Killing rhem both. Jay On Mar 20, 2025, at 9:53 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: Friends: If there is a practical reason why something should not be done then the code is irrelevant. I do not like installing electrical equipment near plumbing so I get it. Maybe a partition or wing wall could be implemented to protect from spray if there is a leak? William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Lou Russo via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 8:39 AM *To:* Jason Szumlanski *Cc:* Lou Russo; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 210.8 Jason, That is my understanding as well. But he feels strongly enough that he will pull out from the project if I don't comply and he does not want to discuss it further. It is his license so he can do what he wants to do. I have been working with him for 15 years and he is usually reasonably, so it makes me wonder why he is standing his ground. He does not even want to have a general discussion about 210.8. Very odd. On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 11:07 AM Jason Szumlanski < [email protected]> wrote: 210.8 covers GFCI protection for outlets and receptacles. Hard-wired branch circuits and feeders of a PV and ESS system are not considered outlets or receptacles. If I am not mistaken, each subsection specifically mentions outlets and/or receptacles. Even the section about mini-splits is talking about cord and plug connected units, not hard-wired appliances. The entirety of 210 is for branch circuits only, so feeders would not fall under this section. Hopefully that helps! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:10 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: Aloha All, My engineer is pushing back on our design, which calls for a battery and load center to be installed within 6ft of the water pump and filter, the inverter is 7ft away. He is citing NEC 2020 210.8 and the need for GFCI protection. Now besides the practical reason for not doing this, I can not find a code reference preventing our proposed location for the battery and load center. This is for an off-grid new construction home with the PV equipment in the garage, using a Sol-Ark 15k and Discover Rack Mount batteries. Any input? Aloha, Lou Russo Owner [email protected] Office - 808 345 6762 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: [email protected] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. 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