The enphase MPPT voltage range seems low to me. I reviewed a few of the newer string inverters and they are between 90-200v and 500+ A range of about 2.5 -5.5.
Enphase is around 1.8X AP systems is about exactly the same as Enphase. Hoymiles a newer company that now has full range of products is 16-60v MPPT range on its micro, 3.75X Always lots to consider even with a micro. Jay > On Sep 25, 2024, at 7:29 AM, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Vince, > > Your math looks correct of course, but I think you left out a variable in > that the panel won’t be operating at max power because the inverters are all > less than 400 watts rated. > Which means that the MPPT voltage will be pushed up to reduce power giving > you added room. > > From my understanding of how the Mppt works, but I don’t know specifically > about enphase, if its a good algorithm the inverter won’t go below its lowest > MPPT voltage. > The inverter will reduce power playing around with the IV curve to maintain > the MPPT within its range. So it won’t ever get out of operating unless it > can’t even produce enough volts to make that voltage. I’ve never seen a > curve of Enphase MPPT efficiency vs input voltage. Would like to though. > > > > Jay > > > > > >> On Sep 24, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches >> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >> >> Hello Wrenches List >> I've recently become aware of an issue with micro-inverters that I would >> like to share. >> Be sure the solar module you're using is compatible with the microinverter >> for the solar module's full life. >> A good best practice is to design for the MPPT voltage range of the >> inverter. I only consider the operating range of the inverter when it won't >> affect the inverter during its operational time, such as when the solar >> module is at its coldest in the first few moments of sunlight when it hits >> max Voc. That will only happen for a few moments as the sun heats the solar >> module. High heat is different. If the solar module falls below the MPPT >> voltage window that will happen in the middle of the day when the solar >> array should be producing its maximum power for the day. If the voltage of >> the solar module falls below the MPPT voltage window during that time it >> becomes much less efficient at tracking the power or simply turns off. Some >> studies have shown a solar module degradation rate averaging up to >> 1.4%/year. >> >> Here is an example of what I'm talking about with weather data for Eugene OR >> and a roof-mounted Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module. >> Vmp 30.85 >> Coe/°C = -0.28% >> High-Temperature voltage calculation: 30.85 Vmp X [ 1-(32+30-25) X .0028] = >> 27.65 Vmp adjusted for 2% average high temp of 32°C >> Here is my Enphase cheat sheet for quickly looking at design compatibility. >> Enphase M# Operating Range MPPT Voltage Range Commonly used module >> pairings Phase >> IQ8MC-72-M-US 18-58 V 25-45 V 260-460 Wstc 1 >> IQ8-60-M-US 16-48 V 27-37 V 235-350 Wstc 1 >> IQ8PLUS-72-M-US 16-58 V 27-45 V 235-440 Wstc 1 >> IQ8H-3P-72-E-US 16-63 V 28.5-45 V 320-540 Wstc 3 >> IQ8M-72-US 16-58 V 30-45 V 260-460 Wstc 1 >> IQ8A-M-US 16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc 1 >> IQ8A-72-M-US 16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc 1 >> IQ8P-3P-72-E-US 16-63 V 35.5-53 V 380-640 Wstc 3 >> IQ8H-208-72-M-US 16-58 V 36-45 V 295-500 Wstc 1 >> IQ8X-80-M-US 25-79.5 V 43-60 V 320-540 Wstc 1 >> So I'm good with three of the inverters on my list right? Not really. As the >> solar cells age the degradation of the cell drops the cells voltage. A good >> design practice is to drop the adjusted Vmp down 10% to make up for cell >> degradation. So, 27.65 Adjusted Vmp - 10% would be 24.88Vmp. I would still >> feel comfortable using one of the inverters on my list. >> If I go to the Enphase compatibility calculator >> <https://enphase.com/installers/microinverters/calculator> it shows seven >> inverters that are compatible with the Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module >> for my climate. >> >> Other than that issue, we try to use micro inverters only when they are >> reasonably easy to get to because we know we will be back at some point to >> replace inverters. >> Electronic components fail mostly based on temperature fluctuations over >> time. The area behind a solar array is both the hottest and coldest location >> at the installation site. I do like micro inverters for many applications >> where there are multiple roof angles and or moving shade to deal with on a >> client's roof. >> >> I would love to hear back from others if you think my calculations are way >> off. This kind of back and forth is how we grow as installers and I won't >> take offense if any of you slam my ideas. >> >> Thanks to all of you for contributing to our industry, >> >> Vince McClellan >> President >> NABCEP PV Professional >> p: 541-485-8122 >> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >> e: vi...@solarenergydesgin.com <mailto:vi...@solarenergydesgin.com> >> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com <http://solarenergydesign.com/> >> CCB# 161672 >> >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please >> delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this >> email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 1:55 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >> It's very curious how there are geographic preferences, and that is >> definitely something to consider. I tell clients that there won't be anyone >> to service their system 10 years down the line if they go with anyone but >> Enphase around here. If a prospective client has 10 quotes locally, 9 of >> them will be Enphase, and one will be Tesla. If they get an 11th quote they >> might get a Franklin WH or another brand if they are doing battery backup. >> Even SolarEdge is dead here, as far as I can tell. I haven't seen a >> competitive quote with SolarEdge in ages. >> >> I can share this poignant advice with clients because I'm one of the only >> people in Southwest Florida who will even touch something from Outback, >> Scheneider/Xantrex/Trace, Sonnen, Magnum, SMA, or even old grid-tied Fronius >> IGs. If someone wants to come and swap out HD Wave inverters as a living >> here, I will gladly step aside. Swimming against the current gets very >> tiring for consumers. Sometimes, you just have to follow the crowd. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 4:41 PM August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com >> <mailto:aug...@luminalt.com>> wrote: >> I agree with Jason that it is going to take a really compelling >> microinverter product at this point to knock Enphase off the #1 micro >> position. It seems risky to sell any other microinverter products given the >> complexity of the product and the fact that if the competing product >> manufacturer goes out of business that there won't be any choice but to >> replace all of that product. That said, competition in the market is good, >> so my salutes to anyone willing to try other microinverter products. We have >> experience with SolarBridge (they were owned by SunPower for a while) and >> that product was by far inferior to Enphase. We've also installed a few >> hundred PowerOne ABB micros - those have been for the most part very >> reliable, but the monitoring side of the equation is very poor so dealing >> with RMA issues there is a bit of a challenge. Both of those products are >> outdated now and no longer on the market. >> >> I've posted here on this before - we're having good luck with the Tesla >> solar inverter. It is low cost and has lots of benefits including 4 x >> trackers with low start voltage, power control systems, built in monitoring, >> etc. We're now offering Enphase systems as well (we were a SunPower dealer >> for many years) so customers can have a choice if Tesla is not their cup of >> tea. Elon Musk is aggravating. >> >> August >> Luminalt >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 1:21 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >> I don't really understand the resistance to Enphase on a roof (anymore, at >> least). We have many thousands of microinverters out there, and I don't even >> have a dedicated service department. We swap maybe 100 a year at the most at >> this point, and that includes for systems we didn't install. It's super >> quick and easy. But most of our roofs are single story 5:12 pitch on average. >> >> I have at least a dozen small commercial sites with 100 - 500 units each, >> and I can't remembereven an handful of replacements on those over the years. >> >> I did get involved with a commercial site I did not install, and that was a >> nightmare, with over 100 early generation microinverters that failed. It was >> a custom rack, and the clamps were a nightmare, not to mention the array map >> had gotten out of whack over the years from prior micro swaps. But for the >> most part, I have no issue with micro swaps on roofs. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 2:14 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches >> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >> I am with Chris except I might put them on a barn roof ! Never a residence >> and never Offgrid ! >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net> >> text 209 813 0060 >> >> >> On 2024-09-24 10:16 am, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >>> Was an Enphase installer since the beginning, I think 08' but moved away >>> when the tech support and early model failures were numerous. Moved to APS >>> with the two modules per micro. Really saved on install time as it was half >>> the number of micro's. One recommendation regardless of brand, don't put >>> them on a roof. >>> >>> Christopher >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches >>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: >>> I've had great luck with APS and so have our local installers. >>> >>> Bryan Norkunas >>> PV-Cables Inc. >>> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D >>> Ferndale CA 95536 >>> (707) 923-3000 office >>> www.pv-cables.com <http://www.pv-cables.com/> >>> <Outlook-u2wnspqb.png> >>> >>> <Outlook-kadxvmqu.png> Please print only if necessary. >>> >>> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the >>> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged >>> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is >>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the >>> sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original >>> message. >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of greg egan >>> via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2024 7:29 PM >>> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> <RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> >>> Cc: greg egan <g...@remotepowerinc.com <mailto:g...@remotepowerinc.com>> >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters? >>> >>> Esteemed wrenches, >>> >>> Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking >>> to do solar without back up. Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros >>> would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down >>> without needing extra devices/wiring. Problem is I have not ever >>> installed micros. >>> >>> Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent >>> tech support? Customer just wants something that works and is >>> relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring. Probably 4-5 kW so >>> not a huge system. >>> >>> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it! >>> >>> Greg Egan >>> Remote Power Inc. >>> Fairbanks, AK >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> <http://re-wrenches.org/> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/> >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer's >>> <blocked.gif> >>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail: >>> ch...@solarandwindfx.com <mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com> >>> <blocked.gif> >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> <http://re-wrenches.org/> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. 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