My design for one customer was to have one initiator for the PV and inverter, and a separate one for the battery initiator. And, to put up a plaque giving instructions to turn off the PV and inverter first, then the battery.
Brad On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 4:22 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Esteemed wrenches: > > Well if my house is on fire and the entry of fire responders is delayed > for lack of a disconnect, I choose having the disconnect. I can worry about > the charge controllers later. > > Others may prioritize their charge controller over their homes… > > Put a cable-tie lock in the closed position to discourage kids from > messing with it. Test it only after dark. > > William > > On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 2:32 PM William Bryce < > wlbr...@pineridgeproducts.com> wrote: > >> All >> >> One thing that no one is talking about is what happens to the MPPT charge >> controllers when the Battery Disconnect trips when the charge controllers >> are under full load. >> Many will blow up. Try turning off the battery breaker on a SolaArk when >> the charge controllers are maxed, and see if you get lucky. >> >> On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 3:27 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Jeremy: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for posting the code references for those that had never looked >>> them up. >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris: >>> >>> >>> >>> What do you mean by “a disconnect for AC wiring, not specific to which >>> or both panel types”? >>> >>> >>> >>> All: >>> >>> >>> >>> Code references are handy when receiving edicts from building officials, >>> but not required, IMHO, for two reasons: The contractor should already be >>> versed in the codes and, building departments can mandate their own >>> requirements above and beyond the code. >>> >>> >>> >>> It may seem redundant to require an AC disconnect for premise wiring as >>> well as a DC battery disconnect. In most cases if you disconnect the >>> inverter from the batteries the AC power goes off. However if the >>> generator is running at the time, some battery inverters can operate when >>> disconnected from batteries. So to completely de-energize all components >>> of an off-grid home you need to disconnect the generator and the battery >>> leads. >>> >>> >>> >>> In this case the home is required to have fire sprinklers. There is >>> pressure pump to provide flow to these fire sprinklers-- said pump being >>> powered by the inverter/battery system. I am going to apply for a waiver >>> to remove the DC disconnect requirement on the grounds that the pressure >>> pump is essential fire suppression equipment. Instead I will propose to >>> supply an AC disconnect (meeting all requirements for accessibility and >>> marking) that will disconnect all premise wiring except the pressure pump. >>> >>> >>> >>> By the way, I will of course be trying to apply the logic that the >>> voltage specification is for nominal battery voltage and this project >>> having a nominal 48 volt bank does not require the battery disconnect. >>> >>> >>> >>> I will let the group know what response I receive. Regardless of how >>> this works in this jurisdiction, I think these are both valid arguments >>> worth trying in any jurisdiction requiring the battery disconnect. Some >>> officials are amenable to dialog and negotiation and some are less so. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >>> Behalf Of *Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2023 10:12 AM >>> *To:* cwar...@entech-engineering.com; RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* Jeremy Rodriguez >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *2020 Code Language:* >>> >>> *480.7 DC Disconnect Methods.* >>> >>> *(A) Disconnecting Means.* *A disconnecting means shall be provided for >>> all ungrounded conductors derived from a stationary battery system with a >>> voltage over 60 volts dc. A disconnecting means shall be readily accessible >>> and located within sight of the battery system.* >>> >>> *N* *(B) Emergency Disconnect.* *For one-family and two-family >>> dwellings, a disconnecting means or its remote control for a stationary >>> battery system shall be located at a readily accessible location outside >>> the building for emergency use. The disconnect shall be labeled “EMERGENCY >>> DISCONNECT”.* >>> >>> *N **(C) Disconnection of Series Battery Circuits.* *Battery circuits >>> exceeding 240 volts dc nominal between conductors or to ground and subject >>> to field servicing shall have provisions to disconnect the series-connected >>> strings into segments not exceeding 240 volts dc nominal for maintenance by >>> qualified persons. Non-load-break bolted or plug-in disconnects shall be >>> permitted.* >>> >>> >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> >>> Solar Installation / Design >>> >>> All Solar, Inc. >>> >>> 1453 M St. >>> >>> Penrose Colorado 81240 >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 28, 2023, at 7:28 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Seems confusing that the AHJ is requiring a disconnect for AC wiring, >>> not specific to which or both panel types, and then a dc disconnect with no >>> code reference. Was trying to convey a reasonable, safe approach. A lot >>> of bad information from fire department solar consultants making a lot of >>> money fear mongering, which has led to this type of situation. Chris >>> >>> On 1/27/2023 3:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Glenn: >>> >>> >>> >>> As I wrote, a DC disconnect is required. Here is an excerpt from the >>> Q&A with the building official: >>> >>> >>> >>> 4. Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect the AC >>> output of the inverter system from premise wiring? >>> >>> Yes, as required per 230.85 >>> >>> 5. Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect >>> batteries from the inverters? >>> >>> Yes >>> >>> >>> >>> If the DC disconnect was not required I would not be wasting everyone’s >>> time with my post. I try to be careful about that, researching on my own >>> before posting and trying to make my questions very clear. I also try not >>> to embarrass myself with dumb questions, but that does happen occasionally… >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >>> Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM >>> *To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* Glenn Burt >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects >>> >>> >>> >>> Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, or >>> does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and producing AC >>> within the house? >>> >>> Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the >>> code evolves. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Glenn >>> >>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ Original message------ >>> >>> *From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches >>> >>> *Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM >>> >>> *To: *RE-wrenches; >>> >>> *Cc: *William Miller; >>> >>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects >>> >>> >>> >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> >>> We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up. The >>> AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect. I suspect >>> there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become >>> inoperable if this system were engaged. In this case we will apply for a >>> waiver. >>> >>> >>> >>> The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October >>> of 2020. At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect >>> equipment. >>> >>> >>> >>> To further clarify my needs: There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters >>> (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner >>> outputs. That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects. >>> >>> >>> >>> The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand >>> yet to be determined. In the case of lithium we will look for a system >>> that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown. In the case of a VRLA lead-acid, >>> we will not have that luxury. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high >>> amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote >>> battery disconnecting in these types of cases.. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
