HI Andrew, I’ve been pondering your comments, and I hope you can elaborate on why you don’t think MLPE has anything to do with firefighter safety? And I guess I lump into the firefighter safety, homeowner safety as well.
As to the code meeting. I have it on pretty good info that a very senior member of the the NEC was pushing MLPE. It is true that the string inverter OEM’s pushed back hard and that is why for the first time(?) a code rule had a 2 year delay in implantation of the NEC 2017. Thanks jay peltz power > On Feb 4, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Solar Energy Solutions > <solarenergysoluti...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Dear All, > > I apologize for letting this conversation get a little stale before being > able to comment further. > > Before I reply, I would like to say I don't believe MLSD has anything to do > with firefighter safety. If being on dangerous roofs was really a concern, > steep roofs, slate roofs, metal roof, wet metal or shake roofs and snow on > roofs would get the same kind of scrutiny as solar on roofs. I can only > guess and think that some HUGE solar hating utility company devised this > whole firefighter safety thing. It is also my understanding none of the > string inverter folk turned up to the code development meetings where MLSD > was determined and you can guess who was. But much of this is only rumor > and the dark thoughts of a solar bozo. > > I HATE the hassle and maintenance issues of MLSD. I loved string inverters > and hated to see them go. So far as I can tell the US is the only place on > planet Earth to make String inverters all but illegal. This said... a > picture is worth a thousand words. All of the attached photos of systems had > the wire management done very well. If you look at the metal roof photo you > can see a small hole in it from the arc. I have many more photos of > different squirrel damaged systems. Ground Fault protection has saved the > inverters, but not the roofs. > > I don't really like the idea of squirrel guards. It seems like I may be > creating another problem down the road that I can't really imagine. Debris > build up could be an issue. Rainwater could back up from a damn and get > under shingles and into the cavity of the house. For me the easiest thing > that could be done is for some kind of a bittering agent to be part of the > wires so that one little lick would send a critter looking for a better food > source. > > Your Friendly Neighborhood Solar Man, > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0 > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0> > Fire 2.JPG <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksd5yhfsammybdz/Fire%202.JPG?dl=0> > > > Fire 2.JPG > Shared with Dropbox > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksd5yhfsammybdz/Fire%202.JPG?dl=0> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0 > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0> > Fire 3.JPG <https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtehaht4rlcrco7/Fire%203.JPG?dl=0> > > > Fire 3.JPG > Shared with Dropbox > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtehaht4rlcrco7/Fire%203.JPG?dl=0> > Fire 4.JPG <https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjm01bkquds1b31/Fire%204.JPG?dl=0> > > > Fire 4.JPG > Shared with Dropbox > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/bjm01bkquds1b31/Fire%204.JPG?dl=0> > Fire 5 Voltair the culprit.jpg > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/vv6f7je8asgx3ih/Fire%205%20%20Voltair%20the%20culprit.jpg?dl=0> > > > Fire 5 Voltair the culprit.jpg > Shared with Dropbox > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/vv6f7je8asgx3ih/Fire%205%20%20Voltair%20the%20culprit.jpg?dl=0> > Metal Roof Squirrel damage.JPG > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4fryj0hleusphd/Metal%20Roof%20Squirrel%20damage.JPG?dl=0> > > > Metal Roof Squirrel damage.JPG > Shared with Dropbox > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/u4fryj0hleusphd/Metal%20Roof%20Squirrel%20damage.JPG?dl=0> > Shadow of scorched squirrel on metal roof.JPG > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bnrgmqzkryu3w5/Shadow%20of%20scorched%20squirrel%20on%20metal%20roof.JPG?dl=0> > > > Shadow of scorched squirrel on metal roof.JPG > Shared with Dropbox > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/3bnrgmqzkryu3w5/Shadow%20of%20scorched%20squirrel%20on%20metal%20roof.JPG?dl=0> > > Andrew Koyaanisqatsi > President > Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. > The BRIGHT CHOICE > Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors > move towards an environmentally sustainable future. > 503-238-4502 > www.SolarEnergyOregon.com <http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/> > > > On Friday, January 29, 2021, 8:15:28 PM PST, Ray <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > > I totally agree; where else does the NEC allow loose single conductor cables > to run unprotected? outdoors? All because the module manus and industry in > general has made no effort, zero, to accommodate any type of electrical > industry standard K/Os for conduit, or TEK 90 (great stuff BTW). If we > hadn't gone this wacky direction, starting about 15 years ago, we probably > wouldn't be having this conversation, because there would be much less reason > for MLSD. > > I could see whips of TEK 90 that plugged into polarized 2 pole quick connects > mounted integrally to a J box on the back of each module. > > > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/29/21 8:10 PM, Hilton Dier wrote: >> There’s a buried-in-plain-sight issue here that has bugged me for years. >> >> In the bad old days we had to hard wire into J-boxes on the backs of >> modules. A pain, but it meant that, if necessary, we could install conduit >> from the module to the combiner box. Now we have convenient pigtails. >> >> However, we are stuck with #10 PV wire hanging under the module from the >> box to the nearest attachment point. There are all sorts of trays and wire >> management systems, but there’s always that one loop of wire hanging in the >> open. >> >> I know that the module industry has near zero margins as a commodity market. >> Perhaps one manufacturer could differentiate themselves by making a module >> with either 1) armored pigtails, or 2) provision for some kind of conduit >> starting at the J box. >> >> I’m thinking of all the various back covers installers have to improvise on >> ground mounts. I’m thinking of squirrels and ice dams. >> >> Why can’t there be a module with the equivalent of Teck 90 cable on it? >> >> Maybe I’m just being naive. >> >> Hilton >> >> Hilton Dier III >> Renewable Energy Design >> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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