Hi Chris, Point taken. However, module level rapid shut down was also implemented for the safety of first responders as well. So regardless of GT or ESS configuration, when the rapid shut down device is initiated, the situation is intrinsically safer for a first responder.
I’m not suggesting that there aren’t issues with current 690.12 requirements in regards to actual real life safety, however the RSD is in theory something of value and does do a thing. Kindly, -Chris On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 8:47 PM Connell Christopher < connell.christop...@fronius.com> wrote: > Hello Andrew, > > I find your opinion on needing Rapid Shutdown. Critters chewing on wires > is the reason why they implemented article 690.11 of the NEC, arc fault > detection. > > What does module level shut down do? Well mostly nothing, especially in > energy storage systems. In standard grid-tie systems IF the inverter > detects the arc, the inverter will shut down. Most Rapid shutdown solutions > are PLC solutions, so the inverter trips off, and then the voltage gets > reduced to less than 80v within the array boundary (rapid shutdown > activated). 80v is still high enough for a sustainable arc to occur that > can melt MC4s. > > If the same rapid shutdown topology is for an energy storage system, rapid > shutdown won't occur (an inverter error keeps RSD active, due to Energy > storage). So in reality the rapid shutdown devices doesn't do a thing. > > > Sustainable regards, > Chris Connell > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 4:53 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [GREY] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 14, Issue 28 > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines > from the quoted message. > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. MLSD module level shutdown (s...@ecologicalsystems.biz) > 2. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (Solar Energy Solutions) > 3. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (Kristopher Schmid) > 4. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (frenergy) > 5. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) > 6. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (Ray) > 7. Re: MLSD module level shutdown (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 14:09:48 -0500 > From: s...@ecologicalsystems.biz > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Cc: Melissa Ann MacCarthy <meli...@ecologicalsystems.biz> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: > <e21f8fac-7e98-4000-a164-cc0e3202d...@ecologicalsystems.biz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to our > industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and installation > standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels like this requirement > was rolled out far too quickly without enough forethought to its impact on > the industry. We are constantly going out and fixing problems with mlsd > installed by other contractors. Thankfully the problems have nothing to do > with the quality of the installations. The problems are almost all due to > premature failure of the products or some inherent defect in them. This is > a serious issue costing the industry time and resources and making our > installers less safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended goal > of the requirement. > I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently > became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a more > sensible approach to this requirement. > > Your thoughts are appreciated, > Sky Sims > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > ?Just An Old Wrench? > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 19:56:08 +0000 (UTC) > From: Solar Energy Solutions <solarenergysoluti...@yahoo.com> > To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" > <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Cc: Melissa Ann MacCarthy <meli...@ecologicalsystems.biz> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: <536449831.235766.1611950168...@mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear All, > I have been an outspoken critic of module level shutdown for all the > reasons folks do.? However, I have come around.? We have witnessed too many > systems where rooftop wiring has been chewed up by critters... mostly > squirrels.? We have seen everything from residential fires to holes in > metal roofs caused by a DC arc.?? I never thought I would see the day when > I would not only be thinking MLSD is a good idea but advocating for it. > > Smiles, > ?Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. > The BRIGHT CHOICE > Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an > environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > > > On Friday, January 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM PST, > s...@ecologicalsystems.biz <s...@ecologicalsystems.biz> wrote: > > So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to > our industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and installation > standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels like this requirement > was rolled out far too quickly without enough forethought to its impact on > the industry. We are constantly going out and fixing problems with mlsd > installed by other contractors. Thankfully the problems have nothing to do > with the quality of the installations. The problems are almost all due to > premature failure of the products or some inherent defect in them. This is > a serious issue costing the industry time and resources and making our > installers less safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended goal > of the requirement. > I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently > became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a more > sensible approach to this requirement. > > Your thoughts are appreciated, > Sky Sims > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > ?Just An Old Wrench? > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210129/c80252ee/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 14:17:06 -0600 > From: Kristopher Schmid <sol...@legacysolar.com> > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: > < > cajb-is-9cisjjyalsuiorrbuhmdm4zwnpvs8afwqvs-ydgo...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sky, > > I, for one, totally agree. While I agree with the need to keep > firefighters safe, it seems to me that rules regarding solar conduit would > serve the same purpose; required labeling of rooftop conduit beyond the > array boundary, required distance below roof deck for attic conduit, etc. > I am sure that there is a fair amount of lobbying by SolarEdge and Enphase > to keep the rapid shutdown rules unchanged and retain their market share. > While MLPE have their place in the industry, they should not be the only > viable choice for a roof mounted array. > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master > Electrician BSEE > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 1:25 PM <s...@ecologicalsystems.biz> wrote: > > > So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to > > our industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and > > installation standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels > > like this requirement was rolled out far too quickly without enough > > forethought to its impact on the industry. We are constantly going out > > and fixing problems with mlsd installed by other contractors. > > Thankfully the problems have nothing to do with the quality of the > > installations. The problems are almost all due to premature failure of > > the products or some inherent defect in them. This is a serious issue > > costing the industry time and resources and making our installers less > > safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended goal of the > requirement. > > I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently > > became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a > > more sensible approach to this requirement. > > > > Your thoughts are appreciated, > > Sky Sims > > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > > ?Just An Old Wrench? > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210129/e2d8f2cd/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 12:58:08 -0800 > From: frenergy <frene...@psln.com> > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: <941d772c-b613-a11e-0722-ddd251e95...@psln.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Andrew, > > ??? ??? ??? If these are the only two examples of justification of MLSD > and not knowing the details of the examples you've cited, I suggest there > is a more effective, equal in labor to apply, less expensive, durable > solution.? For the squirrel problem, an alternate solution is one of the > available edge of array screen products.? Not only does it stop the > squirrels but it works for mice, leaves, pine needles, etc. > > ??? ??? ??? Can you enlighten us about the cause of the resi fires that > were caused from the lack of MLSD's?? Poor wire management? And was the > hole in the metal roof caused by the squirrel having lunch on the wiring? > > ??? ??? ??? I feel it worth diving into this deeper for a variety of > reasons. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net > > On 1/29/2021 11:56 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > I have been an outspoken critic of module level shutdown for all the > > reasons folks do.? However, I have come around.? We have witnessed too > > many systems where rooftop wiring has been chewed up by critters... > > mostly squirrels.? We have seen everything from residential fires to > > holes in metal roofs caused by a DC arc.?? I never thought I would see > > the day when I would not only be thinking MLSD is a good idea but > > advocating for it. > > > > Smiles, > > **Andrew Koyaanisqatsi** > > *President* > > **Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. > > /The BRIGHT CHOICE/ > > ** > > *Since 1987,**helping you and your Portland neighbors move**towards an > > environmentally sustainable future.* > > **503-238-4502 > > www.SolarEnergyOregon.com <http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/> ** > > > > > > On Friday, January 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM PST, > > s...@ecologicalsystems.biz <s...@ecologicalsystems.biz> wrote: > > > > > > So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to > > our industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and > > installation standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels > > like this requirement was rolled out far too quickly without enough > > forethought to its impact on the industry. We are constantly going out > > and fixing problems with mlsd installed by other contractors. > > Thankfully the problems have nothing to do with the quality of the > > installations. The problems are almost all due to premature failure of > > the products or some inherent defect in them. This is a serious issue > > costing the industry time and resources and making our installers less > > safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended goal of the > > requirement. > > I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently > > became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a > > more sensible approach to this requirement. > > > > Your thoughts are appreciated, > > Sky Sims > > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > > ?Just An Old Wrench? > > _______________________________________________ > > > -- > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210129/dfccba2d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 13:32:30 -0800 > From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net> > To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: <f5ba86efba9059d780e7902a71cebf3a@127.0.0.1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Sly, > > The small part of the industry ( Offgrid ) mostly uses ground mounting > and is not using MLSD. On some new offgrid homes I use rapid shutdown at > MPPT level to get the permit if the AHJ can't be reasoned with. The > Schneider rapid shutdown has a nice 600 vdc disconnect in it, that is > useful later if the homeowner decides to abandon the extra electronics that > can affect reliability. > > We also protect the area under and near the modules to guard against a > rare defect from causing a wildfire. > > I would like to hear what Outback is doing for this also from you guys > please? FRIDAY !!! > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 14:09:48 -0500, s...@ecologicalsystems.biz wrote: > > So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to > our > > industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and installation > > standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels like this > requirement > > was rolled out far too quickly without enough forethought to its > > impact > on > > the industry. We are constantly going out and fixing problems with > > mlsd installed by other contractors. Thankfully the problems have > > nothing to > do > > with the quality of the installations. The problems are almost all due > to > > premature failure of the products or some inherent defect in them. > > This > is > > a serious issue costing the industry time and resources and making our > > installers less safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended > goal > > of the requirement. > > I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently > > became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a > more > > sensible approach to this requirement. > > > > Your thoughts are appreciated, > > Sky Sims > > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > > ?Just An Old Wrench? > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 17:26:49 -0500 > From: Ray <r...@solarray.com> > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: <4fa8e946-819e-a946-d794-14b98ceeb...@solarray.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Yes, I would like more info too.? I'm all about safety, but it needs to be > based on reality not theory.? For instance, would string level shut down > have stopped the arcs you mentioned?? Also, I second the screening.? Even > if MLSD stops the fire, the rodents have still won the day by taking out > part of the array.? How about an exemption from MLSD for systems below a > certain voltage, and having animal guard in place, and those would still > have string level shut down. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 1/29/21 3:58 PM, frenergy wrote: > > > > Andrew, > > > > ??? ??? ??? If these are the only two examples of justification of > > MLSD and not knowing the details of the examples you've cited, I > > suggest there is a more effective, equal in labor to apply, less > > expensive, durable solution.? For the squirrel problem, an alternate > > solution is one of the available edge of array screen products.? Not > > only does it stop the squirrels but it works for mice, leaves, pine > > needles, etc. > > > > ??? ??? ??? Can you enlighten us about the cause of the resi fires > > that were caused from the lack of MLSD's?? Poor wire management? And > > was the hole in the metal roof caused by the squirrel having lunch on > > the wiring? > > > > ??? ??? ??? I feel it worth diving into this deeper for a variety of > > reasons. > > > > Bill > > > > Feather River Solar Electric > > Bill Battagin, Owner > > 4291 Nelson St. > > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > > 530.284.7849 > > CA Lic 874049 > > www.frenergy.net > > On 1/29/2021 11:56 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote: > >> Dear All, > >> > >> I have been an outspoken critic of module level shutdown for all the > >> reasons folks do.? However, I have come around.? We have witnessed > >> too many systems where rooftop wiring has been chewed up by > >> critters... mostly squirrels.? We have seen everything from > >> residential fires to holes in metal roofs caused by a DC arc.?? I > >> never thought I would see the day when I would not only be thinking > >> MLSD is a good idea but advocating for it. > >> > >> Smiles, > >> **Andrew Koyaanisqatsi** > >> *President* > >> **Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. > >> /The BRIGHT CHOICE/ > >> ** > >> *Since 1987,**helping you and your Portland neighbors move**towards > >> an environmentally sustainable future.* > >> **503-238-4502 > >> www.SolarEnergyOregon.com <http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/> ** > >> > >> > >> On Friday, January 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM PST, > >> s...@ecologicalsystems.biz <s...@ecologicalsystems.biz> wrote: > >> > >> > >> So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow > >> to our industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and > >> installation standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels > >> like this requirement was rolled out far too quickly without enough > >> forethought to its impact on the industry. We are constantly going > >> out and fixing problems with mlsd installed by other contractors. > >> Thankfully the problems have nothing to do with the quality of the > >> installations. The problems are almost all due to premature failure > >> of the products or some inherent defect in them. This is a serious > >> issue costing the industry time and resources and making our > >> installers less safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the intended > >> goal of the requirement. > >> I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I > >> recently became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on > >> bringing a more sensible approach to this requirement. > >> > >> Your thoughts are appreciated, > >> Sky Sims > >> Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > >> ?Just An Old Wrench? > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > > -- > > > > < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_ > > campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> > > > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210129/e8f416c9/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 14:29:12 -0800 > From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net> > To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown > Message-ID: <d3f4916a44ac1e6d73129845d898d97e@127.0.0.1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Ben, > > Dave had to go on a service call up into the high county. No cell ! I > expect him back before dark. Probably will get back in the AM > > Thanks, Ingrid > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 13:32:30 -0800, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < > offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > > Hi Sly, > > > > The small part of the industry ( Offgrid ) mostly uses ground > > mounting and is not using MLSD. On some new offgrid homes I use rapid > > shutdown at MPPT level to get the permit if the AHJ can't be reasoned > > with. The Schneider rapid shutdown has a nice 600 vdc disconnect in > > it, that is useful later if the homeowner decides to abandon the > > extra electronics > that > > can affect reliability. > > > > We also protect the area under and near the modules to guard against a > > rare defect from causing a wildfire. > > > > I would like to hear what Outback is doing for this also from you guys > > please? FRIDAY !!! > > > > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > > "we go where powerlines don't" > > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > > text 209 813 0060 > > > > On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 14:09:48 -0500, s...@ecologicalsystems.biz wrote: > >> So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow > >> to > > our > >> industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and > >> installation standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels > >> like this > > requirement > >> was rolled out far too quickly without enough forethought to its > >> impact > > on > >> the industry. We are constantly going out and fixing problems with > >> mlsd installed by other contractors. Thankfully the problems have > >> nothing to > > do > >> with the quality of the installations. The problems are almost all > >> due > > to > >> premature failure of the products or some inherent defect in them. > >> This > > is > >> a serious issue costing the industry time and resources and making > >> our installers less safe. It just doesn?t really accomplish the > >> intended > > goal > >> of the requirement. > >> I?m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I > >> recently became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on > >> bringing a > > more > >> sensible approach to this requirement. > >> > >> Your thoughts are appreciated, > >> Sky Sims > >> Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > >> ?Just An Old Wrench? > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > the > >> other: > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 14, Issue 28 > ******************************************* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
