Hi Don, Yes, this sounds very similar. Is there a way to make the inverter start a bulk charge from the grid (except daily from the bulk charge timer)? I have both inverters connected to the same set of batteries for troubleshooting. I am concerned in the northeast winter that the one inverter might kill the batteries if we don't get enough solar for a few days. The other inverter is still connected to the grid though, and it would be a shame for it to not charge the batteries. The manual said something about it doing a bulk charge after reconnecting to the grid, but powercycling the grid connection does not seem to work. Or maybe it would not waste too much energy to use the bulk charge timer initiate a bulk charge every evening after it has been selling all day? Cheers, Dave
*Dave Tedeyan, PE* Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. *607.277.1118 x121* f. 607.277.2119 www.taitem.com Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design Certified B-Corporation since 2013 On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 7:29 PM <d...@energysolarnow.com> wrote: > Hi Dave > Your experience here closely resembles mine on at least two jobs with > these inverters. > When the AC1in light blinks the inverter is no longer connected to the > grid. The loads are running off battery power, but this will be short term > in winter weather. I have a VFXR3648A in my truck now to replace an SW4048 > that has lost the ability to connect to the grid. It killed the batteries > in rainy weather, so they are being replaced as well. > > If you set the terminals of your meter from the AC1 input to the Load > output you will see the voltage phase difference. If they are in phase the > voltage difference is zero. In my case this voltage drifts from 0 to 240 > over a period of 15 secs or so, indicating the lack of sync. I have not > found anyone who repairs these old modified square wave inverters. The old > SW4048 should still be good for off grid use. > If anyone wants it let me know. Located in Bolinas, CA. > At least I can go surfing after service calls there.... > > Don Barch > Energy Solar > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 12, Issue 362 > From: re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > Date: Tue, December 24, 2019 2:34 pm > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines > from the quoted message. > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Xantrex SW 4048 grid tie mystery (Dave Tedeyan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:14:18 -0500 > From: Dave Tedeyan <dtede...@taitem.com> > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW 4048 grid tie mystery > Message-ID: > <ca+cq0bvfmczx5vakqo-1vhztqadvsob42hkg1--7no9emrr...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi All, > So I went back today and updated all the programming. There was actually > lots of sun too (a rare event in upstate NY this time of year)! > > The inverters have not yet had any issues with powering the backed up loads > so far. But there have been issues with selling back to the grid. One > inverter was selling just fine, with the sell current right around the max > sell setting. The other inverter would very quickly ramp up its sell and go > way past the setting (set at 30A) and start selling at up to about 60A, and > then would stop selling (but continue to power the backed up loads. When > selling, the AC1 in good light would stay on green solid. Then when the one > inverter would stop selling, that light would flash. Then 5 minutes or so > later, it would click a bunch of times, start selling, and within about 10 > seconds overshoot the setting again and kick off. > > I tried Tumps suggestion of removing the black jumper. When I did that in > each inverter, neither one would sell, but they would continue to power the > backed up loads. > > I also tried bypassing the GTI on the inverter that was having selling > issues. When I did that, the AC1 in good light never came on at all, even > though I verified AC voltage on the input. It never started selling, but it > would at least continue to power the backed up loads. I only had it like > this for about 15 minutes before I had to leave the site, so will be > checking in on the system in the coming days. Last time I was there and > fired it up, it worked fine to begin with and it was not until many hours > later that the issues with powering the backed up loads started appearing. > > Cheers, > Dave > > *Dave Tedeyan, PE* > Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC > > 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 > o. *607.277.1118 x121* f. 607.277.2119 > www.taitem.com > > Solar ? Sustainability ? Energy ? Design > Certified B-Corporation since 2013 > > > On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 5:11 PM b...@midnitesolar.com <b...@midnitesolar.com > > > wrote: > > > > > Forgot to say that if the inverters ARE grid tied, then they will NOT > > drift around in phase and will > > > > be synchronized and therefore will stay in sync and be passing through > > from grid to output. > > > > boB > > > > > > > > On 12/22/2019 12:57 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > > > > Well l would start simple and get a sync cable and make sure that they > are > > al least staying g in correct phasing, then look closely at the > > programming, look at the grid voltages and settings, take it out of IEEE > > for test purposes only, you might find out you have a board that's out of > > calibration causing the issue but start simple > > Jerry > > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 9:44 AM Dave Tedeyan <dtede...@taitem.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I am someone's last ditch effort to get their system working which has > >> been non-functional since a few months after installation, 13 years > ago... > >> > >> After getting some new batteries in there, I can at least fire it up. It > >> is a grid tie with battery backup situation with two Xantrex SW4048 > >> inverters. Each inverter is kind of like its own system with two Outback > >> MX60 CC's per inverter, and each inverter powers its own 120V backed up > >> loads panel. They do not see each other until their 60A single pole > >> breakers in the main panel. > >> > >> What seems to be happening is that after turning on the inverters the > AC1 > >> in good light will flash for about 30 seconds, then it syncs up to the > grid > >> and the light stays on solid. But then after a little bit, that light > will > >> start flashing, indicating that the utility power has been dropped, > when it > >> has not actually been dropped. Then at some point the backed up loads > would > >> lose power. The customer says that every 1-10 minutes, they would lose > the > >> backed up loads for 10-90 seconds. This happened all night long until > they > >> bypassed the inverters. > >> > >> There are a few other things of note: > >> 1. There is a Xantrex GTI for each inverter. > >> 2. I see in the manual there is information about stacking the > inverters, > >> but I am guessing in this setup this not necessary or would even be > counter > >> productive to stack the inverters. Not sure if the inverters not being > >> stacked could cause one of them to unsync with the utility? > >> 3. Neutrals and grounds are bonded in their main panel, but also in each > >> of the Xantrex DC breaker boxes. I was going to separate them in the DC > >> breaker boxes, but found that there is no way to isolate the battery > >> negative bus from the box itself, and figured it would be dodgy to > unground > >> the enclosure. So I am also not sure if the multiple N-G bonds could be > >> causing these issues. > >> > >> Does anyone have any ideas? > >> Cheers, > >> Dave > >> > >> *Dave Tedeyan, PE* > >> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC > >> > >> 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 > >> o. *607.277.1118 x121* f. 607.277.2119 > >> www.taitem.com > >> > >> Solar ? Sustainability ? Energy ? 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