Another possibility would be to macerate the sewage with a low head macerator pump. And then pump to a non-grinder sewage pump that does your high head lifting. Two stages. The two pumps could have PLC or relay logic so only one would run at a time.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/P382LE51-1-2-HP-Sewage-Pump-System-115v-2-Discharge-24-x-24-Basin If you really need lots of head, you could do it in multiple stages. The sewage pump systems are available in versions that can be installed outdoors. Lift to intermediate pump and then pump to next until you finally get to sanitary sewer or wherever the poop goes. You can have redundant pumps at each stage as well. -James Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:57 AM Jeff Clearwater < je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > Hey Wrenches, > > So the upshot from this soft start thread is it turns out that with > today's electronics just about any motor can be soft start BUT Sewage > Macerator pumps can't! They will most likely clog if started up at > anything but full RPM and torque. > > So be aware if a customer you have has a sewage macerator pump - > especially with high head - if they do and you are designing an off-grid > system - suggest you take a Fluke 350 meter or oscilloscope - start the > pump if already installed on a beefy generator and test the inrush and > voltage lag etc. > > If not installed you probably need to plan for the full Locked Rotor Amps > (LRA) and get an inverter with a rating that can withstand that for 5 secs. > > Thanks to all for your input, > > Best, > > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > > > > Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/29/19 9:59 AM: > > Hey Chris and Wrenches, > > So I talked to Steve at Gen Pro and he says that his soft starts are > intended to be used for LRA conditions where there is a load against the > shaft on start-up - although they do do some well pumps. See below - still > searching! > > Thanks though cause he is going to have his engineers look at it. > > From their website FAQ: > > > How do I verify SureStart is performing as stated? > > > > To verify LRA reduction in a field installation, technicians will require > a device that can capture inrush current and display this LRA value in a > digital readout. FLUKE® 375 Clamp Meter is one such tool that is available > for field use. Although not as accurate as an oscilloscope (which is > required to test and rate LRA for compressors), this device should allow > field technicians to verify SureStart performance when used properly. > > The LED portal on the front cover of SureStart can also be used to verify > operation. A steady, non-flashing light indicates SureStart is wired and > operating properly. If the LED light is flashing, this indicates a "fault" > condition. Please review Installation Instructions, Specification Catalog, > or Submittal Sets to determine the fault codes. > > > > Can I apply SureStart to well pumps or other applications? > > > > Although no significant testing has been done, well pump applications have > had SureStart applied successfully. Please review the requirements for > reciprocating/rotary compressors as they pertain to starting "under a > load." SureStart is designed to start direct, across-the-line motor starts > that have ZERO load applied on the motor shaft. If there is a load on > the compressor or pump motor at startup, SureStart should not be applied. > > > Compressor motor RLA considerations are also necessary to verify potential > operation. > > SureStart should not be applied to "squirrel-cage" or other types of fans. > > > > SureStart is an electrical device and should be mounted in a protected > compartment. > > > > In the future, we hope to publish Specifications for well pump > > > Best, > > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > > > Chris Schaefer wrote on 7/29/19 8:39 AM: > > I've been following this post with great interest. I was looking at an > off-grid project a couple years back that was being run entirely by large > diesel generators and had two massive AC units where the LRA was 104 Amps. > I found a company that makes what amounts to a soft start. I don't recall > the engineer/owners name but he was very knowledgeable. His number is > 813-601-0947 and web site is gen-pro.biz. To finish the client never made > the switch from generator to solar so I can't say if these units work. Hope > this provides another option. > > Sincerely, > Christopher > > > *229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com > <ch...@solarandwindfx.com>* > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:15 PM Jeff Clearwater < > je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > >> Hey Jerry, >> >> I think the issue is capacitor start motors can't handle VFDs. but there >> are other approaches to soft start - still learning. Thanks for the >> reference! >> >> Best, >> >> Jeff >> >> Jerry Shafer wrote on 7/26/19 12:59 PM: >> >> Wrenches >> I have quite a few freq drives on single phase, the controller came from >> ABB, the pic attached is reference only, it was for a AC chiller grid >> connected not off grid but the controller works either way >> Jerry >> >> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 12:47 PM Jeff Clearwater < >> je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Chris! >>> >>> Unfortunately I'm finding that unless you build an integrated control - >>> motor combo that can soft start like Franklin did - the majority of single >>> phase motors can't use soft start. That is probably a 3-phase motor in >>> that pump that they have an inverter for in the controls - or they used a >>> shaded pole or spit capacitor single phase motor which can use soft start - >>> at least that is what my initial research and phone call to the pump >>> control company has thus far revealed. >>> >>> Apparently you can play with the voltage-amperage tradeoffs when you >>> have the 3 magnetic fields interaction - single phase doesn't allow you >>> much room to wiggle. >>> >>> I do see single phase soft-starts on the market - still researching but >>> that's my initial findings. >>> >>> Anyone know differently? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> ch...@oasismontana.com wrote on 7/26/19 9:27 AM: >>> >>> Here at the Oasis home/office, we have a Goulds 3 hp 240VAC soft start >>> pump (#18GS30, w/ Franklin motor HS09970 and #3AS30 Aquavar Solo >>> controller); it’s been running off of my 2011 Radian GS8048 since 2016, >>> when I had to drill a new well (the water table is dropping) and pump from >>> about 300 ft. depth. I have 3500 ft. of drip irrigation, a big garden >>> and the usual domestic water loads. It’s worked flawlessly since its >>> inception, and I cannot speak more highly of Goulds pumps. My first >>> one lasted 23 years (it was a 1.5HP model). >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris Daum >>> >>> Oasis Montana Inc. >>> >>> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >>> >>> 406-777-4309 fax >>> >>> www.oasismontana.com >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On Behalf Of *Dana >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 9:34 AM >>> *To:* 'Jeff Clearwater' <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> >>> <je...@villagepowerdesign.com>; 'RE-wrenches' >>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage >>> Pumps? >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes I have used soft starts offgrid with SW & VFX for 15+ years, in >>> spite of doing load evaluations & others installing what ever they normally >>> used. It has been a great rescue device. Well pump, 2 dish washers, booster >>> pump, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>> >>> *C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com >>> <d...@solarwork.com>* >>> >>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>> >>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com >>> >>> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >>> >>> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> *On >>> Behalf Of *Jeff Clearwater >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2019 8:04 AM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hey Wrenches, >>> >>> Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well and sewage pumps to >>> lower the surge for off-grid inverters? >>> >>> The baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore Grinder >>> Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Jeff Clearwater >>> Village Power Design >>> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/> >>> www.villagepowerdesign.com >>> cell - 413-559-9763 >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> >>> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM: >>> >>> >>> >>> *Thanks Ray and Jerry,Great to hear from you both with your years of >>> combined experience :)* >>> >>> *So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching back to a trusty Radian - >>> even then from what you are saying it may not work.* >>> >>> And you are right Ray - Outback is careful to rate the "overload >>> capability" in KVA rather than KW due most likely to voltage sag of course. >>> >>> *So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust the 5 second (50 A) >>> might not start - especially with other loads on the system?* >>> >>> *RADIAN SURGE RATINGS:* >>> >>> *Maximum Output Current* >>> 1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200 Amps AC at 120 VAC >>> 100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC >>> >>> *Overload Capability* >>> 100 ms surge 16.97 kVa >>> 5 seconds 12 kVa >>> 30 minute 9 kVa >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or well pump motors on a >>> Radian?Thanks!Jeff* >>> >>> >>> Ray wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM: >>> >>> I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get an idea what an >>> inverter can really do in the real world. All those millisecond ratings/ >>> in rush current specs won't get a pump or motor started, and will basically >>> just get you into trouble. The reason they have those ratings in amps and >>> not watts, is that the voltage craters during that 100mS surge. >>> >>> I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump, compressor, or >>> large table saw, and the inverter just shut off, even though the "in rush >>> current" was within the theoretical inverter capacity. Actual Wrench list >>> testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs. >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> >>> Remote Solar >>> >>> 303 505-8760 >>> >>> On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >>> >>> *Hey There Wrenches,* >>> >>> So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT >>> double the surge ratings of a single SW. >>> >>> But that brings me to my second question: >>> >>> *What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum >>> Inrush or LRA - 1ms? 100ms? 1 sec?* >>> >>> *Your engineering wisdom welcomed!* >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> >>> Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM: >>> >>> Thanks for the tip! I'll check the firmware. >>> >>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM: >>> >>> Hi Jeff, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am not going to guess if this will work, it should. I use XW's >>> because they start anything I have come across. >>> >>> If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware. >>> There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development. >>> >>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* >>> >>> *"we go where powerlines don't"* >>> >>> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>* >>> >>> *e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net>* >>> >>> *text 209 813 0060* >>> >>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater >>> <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> <je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hey Esteemed Wrenches, >>> >>> So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider >>> SW for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle. >>> >>> But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is only >>> rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping kick - >>> probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating. >>> >>> *The SW has the following surge capability:* >>> >>> *SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:* >>> Continuous - 15.2 Amps 3700 Watts >>> 30 Minutes - 18.3 Amps 4400 Watts >>> 5 Secs - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts >>> Max (100ms?) - 41 Amps - 9840 Watts >>> >>> Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby? >>> >>> >>> *Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?* >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* >>> >>> *"we go where powerlines don't"* >>> >>> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>* >>> >>> *e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net>* >>> >>> *text 209 813 0060* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> >>> Jeff Clearwater >>> Village Power Design >>> linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/> >>> www.villagepowerdesign.com >>> cell - 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