I've seen similar weirdness with many systems of various brands. The
issue seems to be having the generator shutting down while still under
load, with as you noted, the frequency and voltage dropping, and the
inverter not transferring quick enough.
Basically I suggest to my customers having similar problems to:
A) First, wait for the charge rate to come down, then
B) shut down any other large loads, (ie wait for the water pump to
finish pumping) then
C) manually switch the generator Breaker off, which allows a cleaner,
quicker transfer.
Some generators have a cool down period after being signaled to shut
off, which solves the problem, too. Having auto control just shut down
the generator hard under load is always going to be rough. I wouldn't
blame it all on Schneider, although it sounds like in your case the
Conext is extending the low frequency time period, and making it even worse.
A relay might fix the problem too: first have the relay transfer the
loads, and then send the signal to shut down the generator after.
Besides the firmware issue, I think you're noticing this problem more,
because of all the new arc fault junk in the house. IMHO, arc fault
shouldn't even be required on off grid systems with less than 70 amps
capacity. Unless they've recently changed the UL testing, arc fault
breakers need a min of 70 amp to even work properly. Of course they're
annoyingly easy to trip when the frequency and voltage get weird, so off
grid all those arc fault breakers are Not going to trip when they
should, but Will trip when they shouldn't. More waste of time and money
off grid. Again, just my opinion.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 12/29/2016 12:27 PM, Lou Russo wrote:
Wrenches,
I recently installed a Schneider Conext SW 4024, Schnieder's DC
Distribution panel, AC Distribution panel, SCP, and the AGS. It was to
be a straightforward inverter swap, Xantrex 4024 to the Conext SW
setup. The actual installation went fine. I did switch over the house
wiring from 120 to 240 as well as the diesel genset.
After a steep learning curve with the client all seemed well. 1 week
later she called and says the power behaves oddly as the generator is
shutting down. Symptoms are some arc fault breakers trip and the
compressor on her fridge sounds like its bogging down. I make the 45
minute drive out and started my search. This is a site with 3
buildings on 3 acres. I double checked all my wiring at the inverter,
then moved onto the various buildings checking for redundant neutral
to grounds, proper bonding, etc… Surprisingly although not great
workmanship everything is where it is supposed to be. I decided to
give the AC input on the inverter it's own dedicated neutral as at
this point I was reaching for straws and the installation manual was
unclear about this detail. Still nothing. A call to Schnieder
confirmed that there was no setting I was missing.
I placed another call to Schnieder tech support. They did and have
continued to answer the phone promptly. It did take a bit of chasing
them but I finally got a answer that there Level 3 folks can reproduce
the error. The inverter is following the frequency of the genset as it
winds down down to 40hrtz. This is after the AC transfer inside the
inverter has happened. During the cool down period everything is fine.
This happens as the genset is actual shutting off and spinning down to
a stop. They say this a firmware issue and that it will take months to
push out as is needs to be UL listed. In the meantime I have a pissed
off client, her oven went belly up on the low frequency voltage, there
is concern about possible unseen damage to her new water pump, and I
wasted countless hours of my own time attempting to make the
situation right. All of this due to a firmware that was released with
a fatal flaw and can not be changed for months.
I am extremely disappointed in Schneider. I have been hesitant use
them over the years as I was still scarred from the Xantrex days. My
“beta” test went will with a early version I installed 2 years ago so
I figured it was a safe move. Obviously I was wrong. Lesson learned
stick with Outback and SMA.
So I have 2 questions for the list.
1.Has anybody else on the list seen this issue and corrected it
regardless of the firmware? I have installed one other conext sw about
2 years ago when it first came out. The setup is very similar except
that it is 48V and has a very old firmware. I went out to this old
site to confirm all is well and it is fine.
2.Does anybody have a good contact at Schneider that could be of help?
I tried to contact Sandra Herrera as she was a great help years ago,
but her phone number no longer works.
3.Does anybody have an old version of the Conext firmware lying around
they could point me to? The website does not seem to have old versions.
Any input is greatly appreciated!
Schnieder, if you have a presence here contact me.
Aloha,
Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com <mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com>
440 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322
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