Hi Allen, I use the 2-3 day autonomy design approach as well unless there are unusual circumstances. Here in western Colorado this design approach has worked very well. I have been met with some resistance with folks that are used to the large 4-5 battery string designs that were common around here. Regarding battery longevity, I think the thing that we struggle with is making sure the batteries stay cool enough in the summer & warm enough in the winter. I haven't found an approach that works perfect.
It seems to me like chronic undercharging is a bigger problem than higher currents introduced by modern array designs. Thanks On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Allan Sindelar <al...@sindelarsolar.com> wrote: > Dana (and I'm curious if others agree), > I used to work with 4-5 days of storage, back with modules were expensive > and batteries were relatively cheap. As in recent years these two have > reversed - modules are cheap and batteries are dear - my fundamental design > approach has changed. I now design around 2-3 days of storage with a larger > array, as long as there's a backup generator in the system. I size to at > least 100% of the projected winter average daily load. > > The batteries recharge more quickly, including on partly cloudy days > between storms. They spend more of their time full, thus keeping them > happier and giving them as much or more life, even with more and deeper > cycling. FLAs are easier to EQ, given the hotter charge rate. And the > customer spends less. > > You used to live in SW Colorado, a similar sunny winter climate. Is it the > same in Idaho where you live now? > Allan > > > *Allan Sindelar* > al...@sindelarsolar.com > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell* > > > On 10/14/2016 3:36 PM, Dana wrote: > > I recommend 4 days backup min & 5 days backup if budget allows of storage > and Iron Edison were saying that 2 days was sufficient. To clarify - I said > “magical” as in wondering if there was something special, I-E did not say > this. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel > > Great Solar Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136 > > d...@solarwork.com - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com> > > *O* - 970.626.5253 *F* - 970.626.4140 c *- *208.721.7003 > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**" * > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Dan Fink > *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 12:04 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison > Batteries > > > > Tom; I have never seen Iron Edison saying NiFe is "magical" -- do you have > a specific webpage on their site that says this? > > All batteries have advantages and disadvantages, and also myriad technical > issues for the installer to overcome. > > > > > Dan Fink > > Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute > > IREC Certified Instructor™ for: > > ~ PV Installation Professional > > ~ Small Wind Installer > > Executive Director, Buckville Energy > > NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™ > 970.672.4342 > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Tom Duffy <t...@solar-biz.com> wrote: > > Hi Dana > > > > Two thoughts… how many days of autonomy are they quoting? > > > > If nickel Iron were this magical how come nobody has noticed them for the > past 100 years? > > > > Kind regards > > > > *Tom Duffy* > > *Senior Solar Design Engineer* > > [image: Solar-Biz-new-logo-800X300] > > *E-Mail: **t...@solar-biz.com <t...@solar-biz.com>* > > ***Please note my new email – You will now be able to find me at: > **t...@solar-biz.com > <t...@solar-biz.com> Please update your records so we don’t lose touch!*** > > *Main Number: **888-826-0939 <888-826-0939>* > > *Panama Office: **507-836-5588 X 122 <507-836-5588%20X%20122>* > > *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>* > > *International: **575-539-2111 X 122 <575-539-2111%20X%20122>* > > *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz (e-mail first)* > > > > NOTICE: *Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, > and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the > end of the tunnel, has been turned off… It should have been solar.* > > *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for > the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender and delete any copies of this message. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Dana > *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:56 AM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Battery Watt hours FLA VS Iron Edison Batteries > > > > Good Morning All, > > > > I have a charity case client that needs 760 to 900 AHR at 24 VDC. I have > installed HUP Solar One Batteries for 20+ years and do not have any > experience with the Iron Edison battery. My client went to Iron Edison & > was told that 360 AHR at 24 VDC would cover the same AHR as a 760 to 900 > AHR in FLA. I understand you can use the IE deeper typically than a FLA. > > > > Math is math to me & how I have sized [successfully for years] Is there > something I am missing or has my client been misinformed? > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel > > Great Solar Works, Inc - NABCEP # 051112-136 > > d...@solarwork.com - www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.com> > > *O* - 970.626.5253 *F* - 970.626.4140 c *- *208.721.7003 > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988**" * > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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