Have you tried it without the balancing transformer? You described that
the voltage waveform looked good, but the current waveform had
distortion. I would take the X 240 out of the system, and see what
happens. I hardly ever use the balancing transformers, and I never let
the inverters go into search mode anymore. With search mode set to
actually work with all loads, it usually pulls about 10 to 15 watts/
inverter, while actual run is 20 watts. It just never was worth all the
extra hassle and cost of the X 240, IMHO.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 12/1/2014 7:57 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote:
Yes, running on gen set was the first thing we tried. Breakers were
off on all units initially. The first unit we lit tripped out on some
random error, but the other two lit up fine. After a few min of
breaker off, the first one tried to light up, but the genny couldn't
handle all three at once (80's vintage 5k propane Onan -- the most we
could get out of it without pulling the voltage out of spec was 10A
@240vac).
We switched back over to the RE system and everything ran just fine.
We measured 14aac at full draw. That's when we discovered the units
all run properly (on RE) if you either leave them on all the time with
the temp turned down or briefly turn them off (with the remote
controller) for a short time. Not sure, but it looks like somewhere
around 4 hours of off from the controller is when the comm/relight
problem happens. Mitsubishi is now talking about using a different
controller to reduce the standby draw (So they can stay on all the
time), but it sounds like they'd still like to blame the RE system.
I'm still thinking bad sushi.
db
Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com>
NABCEP #092907-44
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback
VFX Off Grid
From: jay peltz <j...@asis.com <mailto:j...@asis.com>>
Date: Sun, November 30, 2014 8:12 pm
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
HI Dan,
Have you tried this on a different power source, say generator etc?
You might also try a different inverter brand just to make sure.
I once had radio noise from a magnum, some years ago. Tried
everything, in the end, I swapped it for a VFX and the problem was
gone, customer was happy.
And I'm going to agree with Mitsubishi, most likely the inverter.
The OB/FX just isn't compatible with some machines.
jay
peltz power
On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:29 PM, <d...@foxfire-energy.com
<mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com>> <d...@foxfire-energy.com
<mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com>> wrote:
We're still not at the bottom of it. Seems Mitsubishi is doing
their level best to finger the RE system. Yes, the current wave
form (On a Fluke 43 Power Analyzer) has a shoulder.. looks down
right funky on one inverter thru the X240 until the 2nd inverter
lights. Current also looks funkular when each mini split is lit
(Pulses).. Still, I'm thinking it's more about how the mini
splits toke power rather than how the Outbacks produce power. The
voltage waveforms look fine.
the other chin scratcher is that it seems this model of mini
split has only been around since spring. There might be a model
specific cold weather setup the AC folks missed. Something about
a jumper on a control board that needs to be snipped to enable
the compressor heater.
We also noticed that all mini splits work just fine if you leave
them on and turned down.. But that kind of power draw for folks
that have been loving off grid since 92 is just unacceptable.
(these guys were turning off GFI breakers because they could see
a draw).
Either way, the power system itself is working fine as is
everything else in the house. And no, the new power system has
not kept the lawn mower from starting or the dog from eating the
cats food.
Peace. db
Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/>
NABCEP #092907-44
<sigimg0.png>
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting
with Outback
VFX Off Grid
From: Wayne Irwin <wa...@pureenergysolar.com
<mailto:wa...@pureenergysolar.com>>
Date: Tue, October 21, 2014 8:52 pm
To: Wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
We have found that the mini-splits have only had issues while
gen sets are running.
In some cases (when on genset) the mini's will run
irregularly or flash a fault status.
Rather than try to have the mini's run on gen power we
install dc chargers to charge batts from gen power.
My thought is that the AC Installer either has something
wrong or the Mitsubishi's have very tight parameters.
Be sure that the wiring from the inside unit to the outside
unit are correct. Should be only three wires (plus gnd). Very
easy to check.
Possible alternative solution would be look into the cost of
installing a Gree since they are the least expensive.
Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com <mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com>
http://PureEnergySolar.com <http://PureEnergySolar.com/>
http://SolarChargingStation.net
<https://solarchargingstation.net/>
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax
352 316-1637 Cell
The Sun Is Always Shining!
The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar
Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have
received this message in error, any use or distribution is
prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:23:31 -0600
From: r...@solarray.com <mailto:r...@solarray.com>
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting
with Outback VFX Off Grid
The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It still has tiny
steps in the wave, and when electronics have a problem, its
usually with the wave form as it crosses zero voltage .
Instead of being instantaneous, it has a few milliseconds of
time the wave is at the zero crossing, which can drive some
electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond that,
but apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for
timers and synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant
"click", not a smear.
Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though
generators can have more harmonic distortion, they do usually
have a clean zero crossing.
If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used
to use capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that
fix in another recent thread, so I don't have any other
tricks up my sleeve.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, d...@foxfire-energy.com
<mailto:d...@foxfire-energy.com> wrote:
Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat
pumps fighting with Outback VFX off grid inverters?
Everything is brand new. Outback VFX7248, three separate
heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting multiple /
confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to
blame the power system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com/>
NABCEP #092907-44
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