Marco –
As we are a SunPower dealer, there is really no question on which product to
use for the 96-cell module (which we have a preference for over the 72-cell),
as Enphase does not yet have a 300w or 350w micro-inverter yet. To qualify
our comments, have installed 14 SolarEdge systems and 10 Enphase systems to
date.
>From our experience in New Mexico, we have branches from Taos to Las Cruces,
>but the optimizer v. micro-inverter choice is more important when the heat
>factor comes into play, as in Albuquerque and Las Cruces. The most important
>advantage that I have seen is the ‘wider operating capacity’ of Optimizers and
>reliability of the optimizer/micro-inverter factors. As all Wrenches on this
>list know, even if there is warranty labor compensation, a warranty call has
>its opportunity costs, as well. I have outlined below my likes and dislikes
>of SolarEdge v. Enphase and most of them appear in the video on the link you
>provided, as well.
SOLAREDGE
Likes –
Power Production - Better Power production in early mornings and late
afternoons, give about 2.5-4% better AC production (at the REC meter!) than
Enphase due to wider operating capacity of SolarEdge Optimizer
Free monitoring, can upload photos of customer site on monitoring portal, less
AC wiring for gateways/dataloggers
DC powerline coms for monitoring use dedicated line from optimizers to
inverter, therefore, no potential for ‘noise’ to disrupt the communication
No extra ‘trunk cables’ to buy
Lower cost/watt
Safe when in Open Circuit Voltage, where each Optimizer produces 1 volt until
it is in
Can use with SunPower 96-cell modules
Can now use star washers from optimizer to rail connection to eliminate need
for #6 Bare Cu in exposed conditions
$125/per warranty call, to cover travel and labor
25yr Optimizer warranty
System cost decrease for increased system size
Arc-Fault compliant
Dislikes –
SolarEdge stresses that a 25yr warranty can be
‘extended’, but is not standard – The 12yr warranty is a challenge talking
point when customer is more concerned with this, than the viability of the
company who is installing them
Failure rates of new products released ‘too early’ and are quite high – we
experienced close to 40% failure rate of Gen1 inverter due to faulty I/O switch
and motherboards which caused the inverter to ‘stay asleep’ when it appeared
that there was harmonic ‘noise’ inside the inverter
Additional inverter equipment required to ‘interconnect’ and find a place for
in a garage that has a lot of clutter
NEC Req’d Label calculations are a bit fuzzy,
for the Imp and Isc conditions, may have initial questions from the AHJ.
7000w inverter output is only rated to produce
6000w at 240 Vac, although allowable DC inputs are higher for the 7000 (8250
400w Optimizer is still a ‘new product’ and is
having higher failure rates than 250w and 300w optimizers
Powerline adapter not included and will be an
extra purchase
ENPHASE
Likes
Arc-fault compliant
Blog is great and answers a lot of technical questions without requiring to
call tech support, Array of the week installs
MAGE solar is offering a 30yr warranty on the
module/Enphase AC module product…interesting
Safe when not connected (UL 1741 req’d)
Dislikes
Energy Clipping on modules above 250w range in
early years of production
EMU is extra and is not provided with Enphase purchase
Lots of electrolytic capacitor electronics on the roof, in the heat, for a
number of years
High Failure rates of m190 product
Max power limited to 215w micro-inverter at present, compared to SolarEdge’s
400w Optimizer for a single module
Inverter AC output sizing is dependent on the micro-inverter size, whereas
SolarEdge has one single inverter, this will come more in to play as Enphase
increases micro-inverter sizing and will need to size Module to micro-inverter
appropriately in larger systems
Greater Voltage drop in longer homeruns, requires wire size increase
Online reporting is dicey, at times on some
installations depending upon local harmonic distortions
Online monitoring only gives production ‘at the
micro-inverter’ level.
Note: This last comment is inherent in the product, so as a rule, always refer
to Utility Revenue Meter at interconnection instead of online production values
to be objective
Questions to Wrenches or Enphase/SolarEdge reps on this list:
SolarEdge (John B. and Marv D.)
1. NEC req’d labels for inverter – Can we assume 350 Vmp and 500 Voc to
calculate Imp and Max Isc values?
Enphase (Nick S.)
1. Arc-fault failures were ‘repairable’ remotely via the online
monitoring, but only 3 times. Any update on this?
2. When is Enphase coming out with a new higher wattage micro-inverter?
3. What is Enphase’s compensation for warranty calls, travel and labor
these days?
Either
1. Which is better, one-on-one, in similar shaded situations
2. Are there any reports of either products reducing effects caused by a
higher Voltage Induced Degradation (I don’t know if this term exists [as
opposed to PID]) for higher 600 or 1000v systems of modules operating at higher
voltages per string
Congratulations to both Enphase and SolarEdge on their product development.
These products give us hope for higher performance and I expect to see an
extended life of solar panels, due to these module level production units and
will help hold module manufacturers accountable. Congratulations to SolarEdge
on their ‘Gangnam Style’ video, as well!
Regards,
Greg Seelhorst
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Las Cruces, NM
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SwingJunkie
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 5:25 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge v. micro inverters
Marco,
We installed our first Enphase system in December 2009, and our last in
December 2011, when their high failure rate became a problem. (Currently 10%+
for us). We were only installing the Enphase units on sites with shading
issues, as a means to mitigate conditions.
After moving away from Enphase, we selected SolarEdge as the solution of
choice for those sites. The installation labor is comparable to the Enphase
solution, separate device under each module. One clear advantage is that there
are no custom trunk cables required, just the standard USE-2 cable and
connectors.
Our field experience has been better than expected production, and 1.4%
failure rate. In December we installed a SolarEdge system just down the street
from a site where we had previously installed an SMA string inverter on an
unshaded site. The SolarEdge system has some shading. Both arrays have roughly
the same orientation and pitch. To date the SolarEdge system with shading
continues to out produce the unshaded SMA system by 5-8% kWh/kWp.
I agree with your intuition on fewer components making a better solution and
"IF" there is a reliable solution that accomplishes this that would be
preferred.
I just priced out the Mage AC module (SolarBridge technology) side by side
with the Mage - SolarEdge combination and the later is less expensive equipment
wise but I think that advantage would be erased by labor savings on the
install.
All that said I'm still a fan of the old fashioned string inverter solution
unless the site shading conditions and or array geometry require an alternate
solution.
Cheers
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
On Jun 14, 2013, at 9:15 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf" <ma...@pvthawaii.com> wrote:
I’ve been educating myself on the Solar Edge product v. using micro inverters.
If you click on the link below, you can read the pitch that they make for using
their product over micros.
Any opinions out there on how convincing their strategy is? As well as any
experience in the field with the product?
Intuitively, it seems to me that if you can accomplish what you need to
accomplish (DC power from the PV mod to usable AC power) with fewer parts (as
in a micro inverter instead of a DC-DC converter and a separate inverter), then
that approach makes more sense.
http://www.solaredge.us/groups/us/technology/microinverters
thanks,
marco
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