Re: [RE-wrenches] Grundfos

[Allan Sindelar]

Wrenches, I had a very interesting phone conversation a couple of days ago with the southwest regional sales manager for Grundfos. I had called with a troubleshooting question that he addressed competently. But then he told me that a couple of years ago Grundfos decided to get completely out of internet sales and distribute their pumps exclusively through existing groundwater (i.e. conventional pump) distributors. He said they would also discourage as strongly as possible any internet-based sales, even through such established groundwater distributors. He said that Grundfos knew that this would result in a drop in sales, but that it would increase long-term satisfaction and support for the products. He said that the internet marketing resulted in RE distributor sales reps selling pumps to anyone, resulting in poorly performing installations and over dependence on Grundfos to provide technical support. He was speaking specifically about the RE market. (Sound familiar? "Sorry, but we won't work on your PV system that you bought for a really good price on the internet...") I told him that this was some of the better news I had heard in quite awhile related to Grundfos, and I supported that approach. Indeed, Grundfos has a poor reputation for support for their pumps in the RE industry (this list especially) and distribution through more established channels, with more control and guidance, can only help to improve this situation. In this area, we have very knowledgeable and reputable support from our AC groundwater distributor (T.P. Pump in Albuquerque); we just pay a bit more for the products - a fair trade. I suspect that most regions of the U.S. have similar established distributors, some better and some worse. So time will tell. We have had almost no trouble with Grundfos products - just lucky, I guess - but I have feared that we someday would, and would have to get manufacturer's support, based on numerous past posts on this list. Things just may be improving. Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 11/8/2010 6:28 PM, Phil Undercuffler wrote: I believe the F3 error code was the known communication issue with the CU200 controller.  Basically, it loses communication with the pump and so throws the error code.  I saw a bunch of CU200 controller issues in my previous job; GF acknowledged they had a bad batch, and were pretty good about swapping them out.   The good news is, the CU200 controller is not required for the pump to run.   The important thing to remember with the CU200 is that it doesn't actually "do" anything to the power going to the pump.  If the float switch signal circuit closes, the controller doesn't interrupt power like a traditional switch.  Instead, it sends an electronic "stop" signal to the pump, which turns itself off.  The conductors down the hole are always energized whenever the sun is shining (assuming it's a PV array powering the pump).  Similarly, the controller doesn't actually "measure" the wattage flowing for its display -- it just reports what the pump tells it that it is drawing.  I believe the F3 error comes up whenever the controller loses communication with the pump.  Take the controller out of the circuit, and if there's enough PV power to overcome the lift the pump should run. In fact, I believe one of the greatest saving graces of the SQ-Flex pump is the ease of troubleshooting.  Go out into the field with a small 1,000 watt or larger generator or inverter.  Connect 120V AC directly up to the wires going down the hole, and if you get water, the problem isn't with the pump, so you can focus your attention to the array.  Add a CU200 into the circuit, and measure the gallons per minute produced (still running from 120v source).  Compare the gallons per minute and the wattage consumed by the pump as shown on the CU200's display, against the flow and energy charts for the designed lift in the SQ-Flex service manual.  If the flow is lower or wattage is higher, either the water table has dropped (increasing lift), or the pump is beginning to bind (increased friction).   BTW, for those of you using the Flex in a pressurizing system, it's important to remember that the CU200 doesn't directly control the pump -- if there's a loss of communication, the pump will continue to run, causing a potentially damaging over-pressure event.  I use a SQ-Flex running off 120v inverter power at my home in New Mexico.  I have a CU200 in the circuit so that I can keep track of the water level/pump friction/energy consumption, but I use a standard pressure switch to control when the pump runs.   Phil Undercuffler On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Gary Gordon at SYV Solar <g...@syvsolar.com> wrote: Wrenches,   More details on the Grundfos failures:   1st failure 11 SQF-2 w/ 204ft TDH    2nd failure 6 SQF-2 w/ 220ft. TDH    3rd failure  6 SQF-2 w/ 253ft. TDH    All controllers were displaying F3 failures, there was voltage at the well head. Only one replaced so far and seems to work fine.   Any ideas or similar problems?   Gary Gordon Santa Ynez Valley Solar P. O. Box 688 Santa Ynez, CA  93460 805 688-1213 g...@syvsolar.com   _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org

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