Colleagues:
I have a good friend that is a licensed electrical engineer. I forwarded
to him the background about the Yorba Linda certification
requirement. Below is his response, which I think is very pertinent to
this list. I redacted his name and contact information because I forgot to
ask his permission to post his response to the list. If anyone wishes to
pose any questions, I can forward.
With any PV system in the field, there are several variables which are
difficult to quantify: Insolation, both instantaneous and over time,
temperature at the module, and wind speed. When I am looking at a PV
system to evaluate suitable operation, there is some subjectivity in
determining acceptable output. I believe it would be difficult to give a go
or no-go determination to a given system. As my friend asks below, "who
sets the standards, and what are they?"
William Miller
Generally problems in this area come down to legal definitions. You used
the word "commission", they use the words "test and approve". Some of
these words have legal meanings that assign risk and liability. This is a
common misconception. Engineers design systems and set the parameters that
constitute the performance metrics of that system. Like the men and women
at Siemens or Square D. Once these metrics are established, they can be
used by qualified installers and technicians as benchmarks in the field to
determine if the system is performing as designed. So first off, you do
not need an engineer to perform tests: The performance parameters are
published, the inspector witnesses a field test by the installing
contractor or testing agency technician that demonstrates the parameters
are met and you're done. Second, most engineers have little or no actual
experience field testing electrical equipment. Many wouldn't even know
what a megger is or how to use it. A trained technician is typically far
better trained and equipped to perform this task. There are good size
companies such as ElectroTest that do this stuff exclusively and there
isn't an engineer in the bunch (except in their offices). Finally, the
main reason to use a registered engineer is to protect the public
concerning life safety issues and so you can assign professional
liability. That is why the state requires the license and insurance. My
professional liability policy specifically limits any testing and
"approval" activities I perform. They typically will not cover any of it.
Only systems I design and even then there is a limit of liability
concerning the manufactured equipment (tested and listed by others) used
within the system. Which is why I said a registered engineer would be
foolish to do this. So if the City thinks they are getting something (such
as professional responsibility) by requiring this, they are misinformed
and I am serious when I recommend they call the state board and ask them
about this requirement. I am sure the board will dissuade them from this.
As far as a business model, I would think a specialty contractor would be
the best for this. But really it begs the question: What is it they are
thinking you are going to test? Voltage? Output? Grounding safety? Who is
publishing testing guidelines that someone can use to constitute an
"approved" installation? It is just half baked bureaucratic psychobabble
and should be challenged as such. That is my two cents. J
G__:
I am curious about you response. What problems do you see with a
registered engineer commissioning a grid-tie system. The consensus is
that there is little to test with one of these systems. A voltmeter,
ammeter, insolation meter and maybe a megger are all that are required.
William
At 03:14 PM 12/21/2009, you wrote:
Incredible. What "registered engineer" would be foolish enough to "test
and approve" something like this? I would recommend the city of Yorba
Linda call the state board and ask them what they think of this statement.
It is patently misguided.
G___ N___
From: William Miller
[<mailto:will...@millersolar.com>mailto:will...@millersolar.com]
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:09 PM
To: g___
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification
G___:
The posting below is from an industry chat list. I though you might find
it interesting.
The ordinance can be found
at:
<http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=13406&sid=5>http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=13406&sid=5
This requirement is not a bad idea. It would drive up the cost of PV, but
it would protect consumers. Would be a good line of work for someone with
your credentials.
William
I am curious if any of you have had to deal with this issue before.
The following is an item we got back from the City of Yorba Linda for a
Plan Check correction:
All electrical solar systems shall be tested and approved by a
California Registered Electrical Engineer. The engineer shall furnish a
report stating their name, registration number, its date of expiration,
address where the testing occurred and the dates of testing and
approval. Such report shall be presented to the City inspector for
approval at the time of final inspection. (YLMC 15.28.020) Note on the plans.
All experiences and suggestion are appreciated.
Best Regards,
Brian C. White
Design Engineer - PV Systems
Eagle Roofing Products
120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212
Grass Valley, CA 95945
Phone: 530-273-2948
Cell: 530-575-5550
e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com
<<mailto:bri...@eagleroofing.com>mailto:bri...@eagleroofing.com>
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