Darryl,
The process of paralleling through buss bars means attaching each serial
string to a pair of buss bars rather than to neighboring series pairs so
batteries aren't passing current through each other and aren't affected by
each others internal resistance. The buss bars then feed the inverter
breaker. It's standard practice in large telco installations which is where
I got clued into the process. I got some batteries from a wholesaler who
did those installations and he was aghast at the idea of series/parallel
installations the way off-grid systems have been done traditionally.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darryl Thayer" <daryl_so...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:04 PM
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of batteries
No, Tom I am not sure that I know the difference between bus bars and
cable paralleling.
But I do know that warmer batteries have a lower voltage than cold
batteries, this difference is even greater for sealed than flooded. If one
battery has a higher temperature than another battery that it is in
parallel with the warmer battery will get a greater charge current, the
cooler battery will get less charge current. The more charge current AND
it will generate more heat. Then the warmer battery well get warmer still
and have an even lower voltage and have a higher current, making it warmer
still. If it goes to far the paralleled batteries will start to dump
power into the hot battery and you have thermal runaway, which is always
bad news. But even if you do not go to runaway, you have a temperature
based uneven charging.
--- On Wed, 12/2/09, Tom Elliot <tell...@wagonmaker.com> wrote:
From: Tom Elliot <tell...@wagonmaker.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of batteries
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 2:00 PM
Darryl,
Do you understand the difference between paralleling the
"traditional"
off-grid way through the bank and using a buss bar?
That was my question.
The installations are quite different.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darryl Thayer" <daryl_so...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:26 AM
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of batteries
> I know that C&D battery does not like parallel
strings and they have a
> device that measures the currents in each string
>
> I investigated a fire from a battery bank of 48 volts
4 strings in
> parallel of 6 Volt 800 AH batteries. The
parallel strings was indicated
> as bad practice and suspect as the cause of the
fire. The battery bank
> was on a standalone system and had poor regulation on
charging. (it was
> being charge controlled by a diversion controller)
>
> Also the fire in New Jersey was a parallel string case
of 12 volt AGMs in
> 4 or more parallel strings (anybody remember better
than I?).
>
> DT
>
> --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Tom Elliot <tell...@wagonmaker.com>
wrote:
>
>> From: Tom Elliot <tell...@wagonmaker.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of
batteries
>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 11:58 AM
>>
>> Message
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would be very curious to
>> hear THE battery
>> company's, or any battery company's, interest in
>> warranty on a system where the
>> strings of batteries are paralleled through a buss
bar
>> rather than physically
>> through the bank. The vulnerability to
failure of an
>> off-grid system with
>> only one or two series strings is high enough to
be a
>> concern. Then
>> there's also the not un-trivial issue of handling
large
>> batteries
>> safely.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Tump
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:32
>> AM
>> To: 'RE-wrenches'
>>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series
>> of
>> batteries
>>
>>
>> Surrette Battery, THE battery company
>> suggests NO MORE the 3 parallel
>> in a string & would like to see 2
>> preferably.
>> If
>> there are more the 3 then they really not
interested in
>> warrantee
>> issues.
>> Jamie
>> where are you??????
>>
>> Now a
>> days there are plenty of options for a good
size/AH BB that
>> can be configured in
>> 1 or 2 parallel strings.
>> Its just that us old guys are having a
>> harder time w/
>> gravity!
>>
>>
>> t...@swnl.net
www.SWNL.net
>>
Solarwinds
>> Northernlights
>> Serving Mid
>> Coast Maine & Northern
>> California
>> Me.# 207-832-7574 Cl.#
>>
>> 610-517-8401
>>
>>
>>
>> Blair "TUMP"
>> May
>> ********
>>
>> MAINE'S CHARTER ********
>>
>>
>> NABCEP "Certified PV
>> Installer"
>>
>>
>> ********
MAINE'S
>> CHARTER
>> ********
>> Trace
>> Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
>> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On
>> Behalf Of
>> Dana
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:58 PM
>> To:
>> 'RE-wrenches'
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of
>> batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> On a
>> similar subject here –
>>
>>
>> Long ago, I
>> had a Trojan battery rep. state
that they did not like to
>> see more than [12]
>> L-16s in a series –parallel
bank system. This was due
>> to too many points of
>> connection /
resistance and bad communication
>> due to multiple flow
>> paths.
>>
>>
>> Has anyone
>> else heard similar or contrary
>> information/recommendations?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dana
>> Orzel
>>
>>
>> Great Solar Works,
>> Inc
>> www.solarwork.com
>> E
>> -
>> d...@solarwork.com
>> V
>> -
>> 970.626.5253
>> F
>> -
>> 970.626.4140
>> C
>> -
>> 970.209.4076
>>
>>
>> I
>> will be the shift
>> in how the world uses power! -
Dana
>> Orzel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:
>> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On
>> Behalf Of Larry
>> Crutcher, Starlight Solar
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:42
>> AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] concord
>> batteries, EQUALIZE Them!
>>
>>
>> If the
>> 180 watt panel will
>> provide enough current to run the
recovery process, then
>> give it a try. What I
>> expect is that your current will
vary throughout the day.
>> Not sure if this is
>> a critical point or if it will
just prolong the process.
>> Pay attention to the
>> temperature. I use a laser temp
probe on the
>> terminals every 30 minutes
>> to verify.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Another
>> thing to monitor is the
>> current. It will probably start
very low and build
>> over time due to
>> high resistance from sulfated
plates. During this time
>> the voltage might get
>> really high and then lower some.
Don't worry about
>> the voltage. After a while
>> the current will begin to drop.
This means the
>> recovery process is
>> working.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I just
>> realized that this
>> battery bank must be 4 in series
and ten parallel
>> strings. This is a horrible
>> design that can never work right
without extensive
>> monthly maintenance. The
>> strings with higher resistance
will not be charged
>> properly. Because of this,
>> many strings will be undercharged
every day. EVERY day!
>> So even if you recover
>> these batteries, someone will
need to test and equalize
>> at least every month.
>> I really want to stress this
point as multiple parallel
>> batteries are the ruin
>> and waste of many thousands of
tons of batteries each
>> year. I never design for
>> more than two strings in
parallel. Do this and be
>> happy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Larry
>> Crutcher
>>
>> www.starlightsolar.com
>>
>>
>> la...@starlightsolar.com
>>
>>
>> (928)
>> 941-1660
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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