I disagree, but maybe I'm just a sucker for BIPV since it's on my house.
A lot of BIPV work- integrating into skylights, facades, or tile- could
be interpreted as being "not a good renewable application," due to
higher operating temperature or imperfect orientation.
Obviously, when looking at a prospective installation you should do the
best with what you have and if you have a choice between two array
locations, then with all else being equal you should install the array
where it operates the most efficiently.
I think the key is just to make sure the customer is aware of the
inefficiency that accompanies an installation like this. We're going to
see a lot more BIPV in the future, and often we'll be locked in to the
original geometries of the buildings; the aesthetics of
awkwardly-oriented BIPV will likely win out over a high-profile racking
system that keeps the system at optimal efficiency. There will still be
jobs to turn down (e.g. an architect wants a building's white facade to
be the backs of modules, while insisting on a 10-year payback).
DKC
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RE-wrenches] High end Lawn Art was: NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid
From: Bill Loesch <solar1onl...@charter.net>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: 2009/11/30 09:09
Hi Dave,
Isn't using the building face or other appendage, rather than or in addition
to the roof what one definition of BIPV is ?
Regarding the non optimum azimuth orientation -
Unfortunate that others around the country are seeing poorly implemented
renewable applications, too. IMHO, this is terribly counter productive in
that a highly visible system gives the message to the viewers that this is a
valid application. Perhaps it is a cost effective _marketing tool_, but
_not_ a good renewable application. It unfortunately promotes the general
public's misunderstanding of what a good installation is. Moreover, this
nonsense is often implemented by users that are promoting their technical
expertise (obviously in areas other than solar, hopefully).
The up side to this travesty of resources, materials, and labor is that the
solar array is less obviously, not performing well as compared to a wind
machine sitting idle.
I believe it was Red Adair (the world class oil field fire fighter) who is
given credit for the expression, "Don't be afraid to walk away." A sentiment
that might find use here.
I am aware of others on this List that have a web "Rogue's Gallery" of how
not to do it. Is there any place where this is a unified collection?
Respectfully,
Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Click" <davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu>
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid
Speaking of IBEW, how
> about the installation done in Dorchester, Ma., do you mount your
arrays
> vertically?
That (relatively small--5.4kW) array was installed vertically to improve
its visibility from I-93. It was understood that vertical PV facing
somewhat SE wouldn't have been as efficient as a 30 degree slope facing
south, but visibility was more important than increasing the energy
production by $60/yr.
DKC
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP - grid tie---Off grid
From: Tump <t...@hughes.net>
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: 2009/11/26 10:03
Having worked for many years educating my clients, legislators and other
officials of the value of a NABCEP certification,NABCEP IS important to
me. I have invested many hours working w/ the early supporters,
developing a national certification program which morphed into the
NABCEP program. I also work on various NABCEP committees working to
insure NABCEP,the test & the test questions are relevant AND continue to
address the real world of PV installations I personally find your lack
of support for the NABCEP certification undermining.
Recently while developing new test questions for /_both on & off grid
applications_/, myself & the installers working w/ NABCEP, the testing
lab & some other HIGHLY qualified individuals got into a row about how
tough we were making the entry level questions. "This isn't what those
kids will know". The installers argued that NABCEP is the best
benchmark & the test was a method of helping our industry weed out those
people that want a easy transition into our/your solar world. We were
finally able to convince the dissenters that the tough questions WERE
the right way to go.
I think that many folks see the NABCEP program "a way in",the actual
certification test is NOT an easy.
It is true that NOTHING will prevent some low balling jerk (NABCEP
certified or not) from getting the job.
There are those of us who see the value in the certification, while the
St. of Maine sees it (the NABCEP test) as too tough a test so what did
they do? They have developed one of their own tests,something that
allows very poor quality of work to be accepted for rebate funds, (some
of it performed by IBEW & licensed electricians). Speaking of IBEW, how
about the installation done in Dorchester, Ma., do you mount your arrays
vertically?
Yeah I loose jobs too, because I charge a competitive rate,install a
quality a product,value my insurance, both health & liability.I
also value my reputation as someone that is considered "one of the
better installers" in the state where I live & work!
There are many of us that have worked to improve the value of the
NABCEP program, you may have seen my personal attack & praise of the
NABCEP program.
I find presently that the increasing awareness of the NABCEP program
comforting,BUT, I too find the lack of support from the industry & some
States frustrating.
Certification is NOT for everyone, its expensive & time consuming but w/
continued interest from folks that may be on the fence & the continuing
hard work marketing the certification program "as the one to have", we
will continue to see the quality minded customer looking for that NABCEP
certification.
Please review some of the questions on the test, perhaps one of these
days you too will see the value of NABCEP & become one of the proud,
frustrated NABCEP certificate holders.
Were you also someone that said that computers were too costly and a
waste of time?
OK I've gotta go & saddle bend up my horse & ride off to turkey
land.......
*t...@swnl.net* <mailto:t...@swnl.net> _*www.SWNL.net*
<http://www.swnl.net/>_
Solarwinds Northernlights
*/ Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
Me.# 207-832-7574 Cl.# 610-517-8401/*
/* Blair "TUMP" May*/
*/ ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ********
_ NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"_/**/_
_
******** MAINE'S CHARTER ********
/**/_Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
_ /*
*/ /*
-----Original Message-----
*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
*William Miller
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:48 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep - grid tie---Off grid
Friends:
I'd like to make two brief points on the training/NABCEP debate:
1. If I thought NABCEP certification would get me one more job I'd
normally lose to a low-ball bidder, I'd be inclined to sit for the
test, but it won't.
2. Most solar electric installers could not be considered
electricians. Until they learn the trade, they are not qualified to
install the most basic grid tie system. Conversely, many
electricians with the most basic electrical skills think they know
all that needs to be known to design and install solar-electric.
Wrong again.
I don't support the IBEW concept of taking over the solar industry
by force, but I do respect their concept of actually encouraging
well rounded electrician's skills. How many solar installers can
actually lay an offset into a stick of EMT? Not many. Most are
glorified stereo installers, plugging and praying.
Respectfully,
William Miller
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