I'd had this question a while ago, and thought I'd send a few links I
found last year in case they're helpful for anyone.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2008/03/pumped-storage-to-back-up-renewable-energy-51745
from that page:
1994 IEEE Study on reservoir size requirements (sorry, I'm not an IEEE
member so I can't send this paper your way)
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel1/59/7653/00317595.pdf?arnumber=317595
2005 Power and Technology Magazine article on required site indices for
pumped storage
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q250m7930q5407w0/
D. Manolakos, G. Papadakis, D. Papantonis and S. Kyritsis; A stand-alone
photovoltaic power system for remote villages using pumped water energy
storage; Energy, Volume 29, Issue 1, January 2004, Pages 57-69.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V2S-49PRFMP-
7&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1
&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9d6b2fba77001e9649de77a59f616812
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro
From: Mark Dickson <m...@oasismontana.com>
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: 2009/8/25 09:41
Keith,
This has been a novel idea that I have heard many times lately, but it
just does not pencil out--maybe on the utility scale, but not on the
micro-hydro scale.
Take for instance my micro-hydro scenario. I have a 75’ head with a
Stream Engine at the bottom with two ½” nozzles. When both nozzles are
fully open I have about 80gpm flowing through the system. This results
in ~670 watts before wire, battery and inverter losses.
Now take away my stream and design a solar pump system. I could put in
a Lorentz PS1800 system with a 1600watt array that would pump about
15,000 gallons/day (non-tracked) in the summer up the 75’ for about
$12,000.
15,000gallons of water (not taking evaporation into consideration) would
then run my turbine for 3.1hours, producing only 2,077 watts!
My four L16s that I use as a “buffer” have more storage than that.
I think our best bet it to hold off for some reasonable flow-batteries
or the fuel cell.
Best regards,
Mark Dickson
Oasis Montana Inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *David
Palumbo
*Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 7:44 PM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro
Hi Keith,
That is my place. Hydro pond is both spring fed and fed by a small
seasonal brook, no pumping.
I figure approximately 50% to55% efficiency for a high head micro-hydro
turbine (Harris PM), not including, wire, batteries and inverter losses.
I do not know the efficiency of larger turbines. Check with Canyon
Industries (they advertise in Home Power). I’ve heard that they are
significantly higher in efficiency (before transmission losses).
I have heard that at least one larger scale hydro facility in NY State
pumps back to the reservoir overnight at off peak rates, then releases
generation water during peak rate periods. Also, Hydro Quebec buys off
peak power from the U.S. grid when it’s dirt cheap to power Montreal
overnight. This saves some of their own water power for selling to the
States during peak periods. A nice money making deal for Quebec. So,
your idea is worth thinking about for regions such as Hawaii I believe.
Dave
*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Keith
Cronin
*Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 2:43 PM
*To:* RE-Wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Solar and pumped hydro
Hi
Have any of you considered using PV to pump water to a holding area and
releasing it and capturing the kinetic energy via a pelton wheel/hydro?
If so, what do we think are the efficiencies and value of doing such a
project are? Meaning, back of the napkin, PV is + - 77% efficient, minus
"x" to pump the water to "x" elevation and the net result of the hydro =
"____% efficient"
It would be using the reservoir as the battery.
There is approximately 300' of elevation from the PV system and water
source to the reservoir area.
I recall about 15 years ago, I visited a member on this lists Vermont
home and he had a pond at the top of his property, but i don't recall
how the source got to the reservoir? Might have been naturally fed?
Anyway, the premise is, as grid access becomes more difficult to do, as
the utility infrastructure gets saturated, what are our options for
folks that want PV, but are limited in how much they are allowed to
connect to the grid, without an interconnection study by a 3rd party to
increase the comfort of the utility to have more non firm resources on
their grid. We are seeing this happen here now and I was wondering if
any of you have encountered this or are anticipating this in your areas?
Any suggestions, calcs, recommendations, feedback would be appreciated.
Keith
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