I took boB's advice and talked to Magnum about the problem. Their take
on it? "Hmmm, beats me!" I might be paraphrasing, but that's the drift.
All in all, I'd say that the suggestions from the group are at least as
good as the one's from the manufacturer.
Matt T
Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar wrote:
Don't forget, this is a Magnum inverter and Magnum has issues. I have
two customers with Magnum problems. One is a washer that will work
perfectly on a cheap import inverter; the other has a Vizio TV that
works fine on shore power and generator. Soooo...maybe there are
pumps and other items that are anti-Magnum.
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar
(928) 941-1660
Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation
On Aug 1, 2009, at 12:24 PM, boB Gudgel wrote:
Chris Worcester wrote:
Has he checked the torque on all the battery connections?
Sincerely,
Chris Worcester
Solar Wind Works
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Phone: 530-582-4503
Fax: 530-582-4603
www.solarwindworks.com
ch...@solarwindworks.com
"Proven Energy Solutions"
Also, Evidence of a bad battery connection (or bad inverter) should
be obvious if the house lights dim
when the pump tries to start.
boB
-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:25 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power Factor
Possibly a PF question, or maybe one for Magnum - boB,
One of the guys at work is (almost) running a 3/4 hp sub pump with
a Magna
AE 48. Or rather, he isn't. According to him when he first fired it
up, it
operated the pump just fine. The next time he tried, though. he
couldn't
even get a buzz out of the starter. No workee.
The inverter runs all the other loads in the house fine, just not
the pump.
He can run the pump directly from a 7 kW generator with no issues.
So, do you think we're looking at a power factor deficit,(I think
not), a
motor starter problem or an inverter issue? I have to admit to being
somewhat baffled by this one because it ran the pump once, but not
after.
Matt T
---- boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> wrote:
boB Gudgel wrote:
>>So, because of the different ways of specifying PF, it is always
best to think of Power Factor as being the ratio of real (in
phase) power, or VA to reactive power >>(VARS or "Volt Ampere
Reactive"). That will work in all cases.
OOOps ! See, this can get confusing. Reverse what I just said
Power Factor... " Definition: The ratio of true power to apparent
power" as David Brearley had just posted. Otherwise, that
calculation can give you an answer that is GREATER than 1.0 and
you don't want that !
Had to eat some of my words. I just wanted to point out that the
phase shift method was called DPF. Didn't Ian Woodenden do an
article on PF
recently too ? If not, he or someone probably should in one of
the two HP magazines.
boB
R. Walters wrote:
Power factor expresses the time difference between voltage peak
and current peak on each of their sine waves. If both current
and voltage waves are "in time", (their wave peaks match up)
power factor is 1. If one is ahead or behind the other, it's
not. Think about an electric motor: we hit it with a voltage
wave, and a fraction of a second later, it actually moves, and
the current wave happens. There is a little lag there. Resistive
loads like lights have very little lag, and big electric motors
coming up to speed can have horrible PF.
This definition of power factor only applies for linear loads
with only inductance or capacitance (with resistance) and is
called "Displacement Power Factor (DPF) and you will see that on
some power meters.
For non-linear loads, like battery chargers or computer power
supplies without PF Correction, the current waveform (on an O-
scope) looks nothing like a sine or cosine wave. The current
"spikes up" at the AC voltage peaks. It actually *looks like* it
might be in phase, BUT the current and the voltage do NOT look
the same. It's non-linear. Lower than 1.0 power factor for sure.
For a grid tie inverter, resistive heater or any load that has a
PF of 1.0, the current and voltage waveform will both look
exactly the same AND there will be no phase shift. They are
both linear and all current and voltage is in phase at every
point in the AC cycle.
So, because of the different ways of specifying PF, it is always
best to think of Power Factor as being the ratio of real (in
phase) power, or VA to reactive power (VARS or "Volt Ampere
Reactive"). That will work in all cases. (Real Vs. Apparent
power is the same thing). Apparent power is what you get when
you multiply
your RMS meter's Voltage by the RMS current and is called VA Volt
Amperes) V x A will be the highest measured number, that is
unless the PF = 1.0 in which
case both will measure the same.
Some of that measured VA, or apparent power will be "in phase"
and is the "real" or "true" power. Some of that VA may be
reactive, (inductive or capacitive that is) and is the "out of
phase" portion. Capacitive and inductive reactance is ALWAYS 90
degrees out of phase in current and voltage.... It's just a
matter of how MUCH of your power is 0 degrees phase shift and how
MUCH of that VA is + or - 90 degrees out of phase. If ALL of
the current is in phase with the voltage, then
the power factor is 1.0. That is, if you lay them on top of
each other, they will look the same on an oscilloscope if power
factor = 1.0
It can get way more complicated that this too, but that's
basically it. Feel free to add to this.
boB
power meters.
There is much more to it, with reactance, "real" and "imaginary"
numbers?!, etc. but basically, we wrenches need to know that
everybody wants Power factor to be close to 1.
Obviously there isn't PF on DC, and it is my understanding that
most inverters can operate at most power factors. Not 100% sure,
but I think GT inverters would help not hurt the PF problem in
most situations.
Correct me on any and all of this, Oh fellow wrenches,
R. Walters
Solarray.com
NABCEP # 04170442
On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, boB Gudgel wrote:
Ron Young wrote:
Ok, so all seem to be in agreement more or less. How do I
break it to British Columbia Hydro? :-|
I think they must be misunderstanding what they are asking for
but the question is in the section for PV and on the same line
as the total output in Kwh of the PV. Power Factor %
It was most likely just a trick question.
You're gonna fool them, though ! :)
boB
I'll contact them and see where this goes but I don't fully
understand what power factor is which will make it hard to
argue my case. My understanding is that it is the difference
between what the utility supplies to a residence vs. the
actual loads being used by that residence expressed as a
percentage. I came across the following course offering by SEI
that discusses Power Factor with reference to PV:
POWER FACTOR AS IT RELATES TO SOLAR INSTALLATIONS Presented
By: Michael Smith of Alpine Management Systems This session
will deal with power factor: What is power factor? What
causes low power factor? Why improve your power factor? This
session will explain the role of power factor correction as it
applies to solar installations. There are currently over
67,000 KVAR installations in 26 countries resulting in
phenomenal energy savings with a corresponding reduction in
greenhouse gas emissions. Session includes several KVAR
installations and the resultant savings.
http://www.solarenergy.org/workshops/docs/industry08_trainingdetails.pdf
Ron
On 30-Jul-09, at 7:43 AM, Wind-sun.com wrote:
There is no such thing as a power factor for DC or for panels.
............................................................................
......................
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since
1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/
............................................................................
......................
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Ron Young <mailto:solarea...@solareagle.com>
*To:* RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:45 PM
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Power Factor
Can anyone point me in the direction to find the power factor
for
Sanyo HIT N 205 panels? The utility is requesting it on a net
metering interconnection application. Ron Young
earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
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