Hi Peter. I have not been involved with large wind farms, but have a few "wind parks", 2-3 to 6-8 wind turbines, in the feasibility stages. My question stems from the perspective of comparing both wind turbines and PV for land size per MW and installed cost. If I assume "approx 6 acres for a 1 MW fixed ground mount crystalline array, including fence and inside access roads. Price excluding fence, road work, cable trenching, and grid connection approx $7.50/W DC" is correct, then the comparison would be to a single 1 MW wind turbine that takes up an area comprising a tower base, parking space and an access road, presuming the run to the grid connection is underground. So maybe it is an acre of "disturbed" land vs. 6 acres of disturbed land for the same rated capacity. According to Windustry, "the costs for a commercial scale wind turbine in 2007 ranged from $1.2 million to $2.6 million, per MW of nameplate capacity". So it appears that wind/MW is seriously cheaper and also uses far less property. Obviously, the wind resource needs to be good as well. I'm not putting a bid or spec together, just trying to put the comparison in perspective and have it be fairly accurate. I'm open to any differing thoughts and/or corrections to my line of thinking.
Wind farm acreage can vary due to ground obstructions, the resource and land lease arrangements. I visited a wind farm in NM that follows a river bed for something like 22 miles and has many lease holders for the properties involved. Ironically, that wind farm, as well as many others around the US is owned and operated by Florida Power and Light, a company with not a single wind farm in FL, due to the lack (as I understand it) of an adequate wind resource. Thanks for all the wrenches responses. Roger Dixon Certified Wind Site Assessor Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC 908.337.2057 cell 908.730.6474 fax roger.di...@att.net -----Original Message----- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ASAP POWER! 2 Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of MW+ installs, solar and wind Yes, that's right. I think it still is... Pardon if my question to you came off as something more than general. Not to meant to challenge. Let me put it another way. I've heard a couple of PPA providers tell me to plan on having $1M dollars in the project budget per MW of PV you want to connect to the grid. Would you agree? Still curious about WA state feed-in tariff, just wondering if any wrenches in Washington know about it. Roger, have you been involved with wind power/wind farms in this range? If so, what are the costs/kw to get on grid you see there? And also curious: what are the acres involved per MW in average wind farms? Peter D. "Not everything that can be counted, counts." Al Einstein -----Original Message----- From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:57 AM To: i...@asappower.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation I thought this was just a general question, not a cost/price discussion. Joel Davidson "It's not so important that you understand me; just don't misunderstand me." Bucky Fuller ----- Original Message ----- From: "ASAP POWER! 2" <i...@asappower.com> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation > Really? I would think the word would be INcluding. Joel, can you say > "$1M > per MW" for grid connection work alone like most everyone in the > utility-scale biz?? This adds at least $1/Wp taking up time/man-hour > costs, > feasibility/system impact studies with the IOU, WECC, WREGIS, CAISO, and > all > costs related to getting to the point of the on-the-grid queue-in and PV > kwh's being counted and paid for. If you've got re-conductoring or new > lines going on for anything over half a mile, might think about $2 to > $3/Wp > additional to base of $4 to $6.5/watt all EPC/turnkey, plus the $1/watt > grid > connection costs. MW+ system size switchgear/transformers, etal ain't > cheap > either. > > By the way, anyone know more about WA state's FIT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel > Davidson > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:46 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation > > Approx 6 acres for a 1 MW fixed ground mount crystalline array including > fence and inside access roads. Price excluding fence, road work, cable > trenching, and grid connection approx $7.50/W DC. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ASAP POWER! 2" <i...@asappower.com> > To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:29 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation > > >> Both area and cost per kw are going to depend on the PV technology >> platform >> and the type of mounting. Are you talking crystalline modules or >> thin-film >> modules? Fixed tilt or tracking? If tracking, unless known metrics >> already, you just gotta work it out with whatever you're working with. >> >> I recently fit 3.9MW of a large thin-film module on fixed tilt on 29.9 >> acres, scheduled to come in below $4.00/W. >> For crystalline, as a very general rule of thumb, I would say .6 the area >> and 1.5 the cost? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of roger >> dixon >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:07 AM >> To: t...@hughes.net; 'RE-wrenches' >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation >> >> Did you ever get a response to this post? If so, would you mind sharing >> it/them with me? I am also trying to get a handle on how much >> ground/acreage a 1MW or 2MW solar installation would use. Any idea? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger Dixon >> Certified Wind Site Assessor >> Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC >> 908.337.2057 cell >> 908.730.6474 fax >> roger.di...@att.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of >> t...@hughes.net >> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:39 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation >> >> Can anyone out there give me this info or have a site that I can get >> these >> figures. How about the area required for a project of this size? Thanks >> in >> advance. Tump Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
