I tend to think there is a bit more money north of the SF bridge..
Roger Dixon Certified Wind Site Assessor Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC 908.337.2057 cell 908.730.6474 fax roger.di...@att.net From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:51 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences? Yep, I agree. FYI, Proven has finally given up trying to sell us on the idea of roof-mounted turbines - at least when it comes to me. ;-) The people in SF are full of crap, of course, but I was being nice in my comments to the general group. Nicey nicey! By the way, I had a metting with these folks, during which I spent 99% of the time attempting to move them out of town, and into the proper environment for wind turbines. They argued back that the city is where all the money is. Nuff said? Have a great Christmas, Roger Matt roger dixon wrote: Hey Matt. There is much interest in the "urban turbine" these days, in part because it has a catchy ring to it. Proven has installed many urban turbines in the UK, all on low towers or roof mounted and all have reported poor production by comparison to the traditional tower top installation in the suburb or country where the proper hub height can be obtained. AeroVironment, Inc. has an interesting take on urban turbines with their "parapet wind" installations. The theory is that the wind accelerates as it flows over the parapet of a building, thereby offering a better end result for power production. This sounds reasonable, but as in any wind turbine installation, what direction the wind comes from and what obstructions are in that direction are still major factors to capturing the resource. As many of us already know, wind modeling is part historical data and part an educated best guesstimate. Urban wind modeling has a different, and in my opinion higher, level of difficulty. The historical data has yet to be compiled, which leaves us with just a best guess, unless an anemometer is installed to capture that particular site's data. It is an interesting theory, but it still needs to be proven. My take on the San Francisco urban SkyStream is that they either got lucky with the location or there is a bit of PR and embellishment at play. Do they have any wind instrumentation in place to record the wind data? Is there a customer side meter installed to verify kWh production and correlate that to their recorded wind data? Roger Dixon Certified Wind Site Assessor Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC 908.337.2057 cell 908.730.6474 fax roger.di...@att.net From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences? Roger, etc., All reports that have come my way basically concur; with one interesting exception - that being from a SkyStream owner (and "urban wind dealer"). They are claiming about "500 kWh/per month" from their machine, which is located smack-dab in the urban heart of San Francisco. This is on a 45' tower, by the way, right next to a house. Since this reported production rivals the best turbines in the same rotor size class in a really great wind site, the report is either extremely misread, or this part of the city has one hell of a wind regime! It is also interesting to note that they won't sell any more SkyStreams after having "a negative experience" with SWWP. Matt T roger dixon wrote: I support and second the thoughts and comments Roy has voiced, as the real world experience does not yet marry up to the projections and subsequent client/owner expectations. Without a customer production meter, owners are basically happy with their units (they rotate so they make power J). With production meters you will find a different reaction. Reality sets in with the numbers on those meters. I do not install ANY wind turbine without a customer side, production meter and I monitor that with annual inspections and maintenance. I am hopeful that refinement of the Skystream turbine, electronics and software will prove to be fruitful and live up to those projections and expectations. Roger Dixon Certified Wind Site Assessor Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC 908.337.2057 cell 908.730.6474 fax roger.di...@att.net From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:25 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences? Phil and all, The industry insiders have a great saying that sums this all up.... Skystream owners without production meters love their turbines. Those with meters hate them..... Let's hope SWWP does what it must to turn this around and do what's right for the industry. Hey...I can dream can't I?? Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com www.nationalsolarsupply.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Phil Schneider wrote: Our experience with the Skystream here in Wyoming has been good so far. We have installed 6, the oldest one being in operation for about 14 months. One is part of a battery based grid-tie system, and operated well when tested. One of the turbines is in world-class wind in Southeast Wyoming. I just checked with the owner and it produced about 480 kWh in the last month on a short tower (with a hundred miles of sagebrush to the windward side) at almost 6000 ft elevation. Unfortunately this turbine doesn't have an anemometer/data logger, so we don't know if it is performing as expected. My guess is that it spends a lot of time self-regulating. One of the turbines was in the recent batch of recalls and was dealt with by a SWWP-hired contractor. This involved a potential leak in a seal of the electronics compartment in the nacelle (although for some reason they are replacing the whole turbine). While reaching somebody at SWWP tech support has been nearly impossible, this turbine swap was handled fairly swiftly. >From the others' experience, sounds like we should keep our fingers crossed. P. Phil Schneider, system engineer Creative Energies www.CreativeEnergies.biz 307.332.3410 Lander, WY 208.354.3001 Victor, ID _____ From: Kurt Albershardt <mailto:i...@es-ee.com> <i...@es-ee.com> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:26:38 -0800 To: RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences? --On Monday, December 22, 2008 6:23 PM -0500 Roy Butler <mailto:r...@four-winds-energy.com> <r...@four-winds-energy.com> wrote: > > In a nutshell.....this unit is not ready for prime time yet. Lots of bugs and glitches. > Not to mention much lower than expected energy production. --On Monday, December 22, 2008 5:13 PM -0700 Louis Woofenden <mailto:lo...@woofenden.net> <lo...@woofenden.net> wrote: > > We've installed a couple of Skystream units here in southern Arizona. We know the tilt-up tower works quite well--we've had to bring each unit down 2-3 times for various problems with electronics. Added to this was SWWP's extremely poor customer service. They took several days to even call us back, didn't send promised parts, etc. Of course, these two installation sites are one and two hours from our shop. We had one customer who was just about ready to throw the unit in the back of his truck, and drive it the five hours up to Flagstaff. > > It looks slick, the installation was no problem, but if it doesn't work reliably, none of that really matters, in my opinion. I was hoping SWWP would get this one right, but I don't think it's there yet. Given the long and well documented SWWP history, I was afraid of this. Has anyone successfully coupled a Bergey Xl.1 to a grid-tie? Anything else to recommend in the 1-5 kW range? thanks... > Might have something to do with those little fence posts they call towers ;-) > > And that Smart foundation only works on towers 60' or less. > Too short for most sites and not a good height for energy production anyway. > > Believe me.....most of us would love to see plug and play/ modular tower > and turbine systems but there's no such beast yet! > > Best advice......take a wait and see approach. > > Roy Butler > NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR > NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC > 8902 Route 46 > Arkport, NY 14807 > 607-324-9747 > > www.four-winds-energy.com > www.nationalsolarsupply.com > > Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > > Kurt Albershardt wrote: >> Anyone have realworld experience with the SWWP Skystream 3.7 they can >> share? >> >> The AnemErgonics foundation kit looks fairly well thought out. >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Kurt Albershardt Eastern Sierra Energy Engineering Reno, NV 775-853-1800 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _____ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _____ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _____ No virus found in this incoming message. 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