Well stated Jim and Grant, its where I was coming from more or less.....I hear the moderation suggestion all the time and like you Jim it just doesn't work for me. I also believe some try to sabotage my efforts subconsciously by offering up the moderation idea and frankly its a little annoying and keeps me from certain social situations which is also frustrating on the other hand. Its odd that when you buck the norm how much you notice what you are trying to avoid and how many people just don't get it. Probably why Scott C. has simplified his diet and remains steadfast in his schedule......its just easier that way and something I'm trying to integrate into my life. Social situations and work make it more of a challenge however.
On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:20:45 AM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > > I have lots to say about this. I'll try to be concise. > > "Extreme" is a loaded term, and may in fact be meaningless. For the > duration of the television age, at least, we've been advised by the > slickest marketers on earth to avoid the fat and cholesterol of eggs in > favor of the "whole grain goodness" of the latest manufactured breakfast > cereal (usually vaguely referencing some unspecified scientific authority). > Is avoiding manufactured breakfast cereal and returning to eggs an extreme > thing to do? A lot of people, including perhaps many doctors, seem to think > so. This attests to the power of marketing. > > My first "paleo" experience was following the lead of a friend who'd had > success with a very simple "no sugar, no grains" diet. I immediately > dropped the 20-30 pounds that had resisted all my previous efforts at > "moderation". I looked better and felt better. I ate like I did before - > meat, eggs, vegetables, fruit, nuts - but no bread and no sweets. Lots of > people thought my diet was extreme. "You don't eat bread? That's extreme!" > For some reason, their minds fixated on the idea that I was eating nothing > but bacon fat, even though I was likely eating more fresh vegetables and > fiber and basic nutrients than they ever did. > > Several of the regulars on my Saturday morning breakfast ride have had > coronary blockages that resulted in bypasses and stents. They tell me "my > doctor says I can't have eggs/butter/bacon" as they order the tall stack of > pancakes and drown it with syrup. If that is indeed the soundest advice of > a medical professional regarding nutrition, I feel that my distrust of > doctors as nutritionists may be justified. > > I quit drinking almost 10 years ago. I regard alcoholism and sugar/carb > addiction as two sides of the same token. After I quit drinking, and even > to this day, people who I recognize as alcoholics tell me: you just need to > learn to drink in moderation. To me a sip of booze is much the same as a > bite of chocolate cake. Moderation quickly goes out the window. I > understand this has to do with spiking blood sugar and the insulin > response, or inherited addictive tendencies, or insufficient will power, or > Satan, or whatever, but in practice, I know it's a lot easier if I just > abstain. Interestingly, the "paleo" diet thing gets a lot of the same > response as I received when I quit drinking. A lot of people are seriously > offended by it, trying to pull me back in by preaching "moderation" as a > better solution. Addicts feel threatened when one of their own turns over a > new leaf. > > As I travel my daily rounds through the seediest parts of the city, I see > a level of obesity out there that makes the obese people I knew 25-30 years > ago look slender by comparison. These people have the genetics that don't > allow them to process the foods they eat without putting on belly fat. I > know because my genetics are similar, and I'd be 400 pounds if I didn't > have some clue how to eat. Mix these fat-prone genetics with poor finances, > and no education/literacy or empowerment about nutrition or how to cook, > and the result is a person who is addicted to highly processed, sugary > substances. In many cases, these people have a zero fat, zero cholesterol > diet, yet they are enormous and unhealthy. Obviously this is an odd example > of a "low fat, low cholesterol" diet, but I think it's an example worth > considering as we evaluate various pillars of conventional wisdom. > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 1:08:18 AM UTC-5, Tim McNamara wrote: >> >> The point of moderation is to prevent problems. Once you've already got >> problems, it may be a different story. However, extremity in seeking weight >> loss may not be a good plan either. I have known people who developed >> health problems as a result of the Adkins plan, the "primal" type stuff, >> etc. I've also known people helped by it. These are decisions to be made >> with the advice of a doctor, not an Internet mailing list or a blog or some >> other web site. >> >> My Dad was an insulin dependent diabetic from the age of 6, which he >> developed as a consequence of having had polio in 1935. He took two to >> three shots of insulin a day for the rest of his life, which was about 25 >> years longer than he had been told to expect (he lived to be 67). It's a >> disease best prevented. Even though he was compliant with diet and >> treatment, it still took a toll on his health (coronary artery disease, >> peripheral vascular disease, peripheral neuropathy but oddly no problems >> with kidneys or eyes). He had a great endocrinologist... It's so much >> better not to need a great endocrinologist. As a result I pay a lot of >> attention since I may have an increased risk, although no doctor can tell >> me for sure since diabetes does not run strongly in the family on either >> side. >> >> >> >> On Oct 7, 2012, at 9:49 PM, charlie <cl_...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> Kind of agree and kind of don't.......(for some) trying to lose fat, >> moderation amounts to no progress. For those people it takes absolute >> vigilance and resolve without any wavering to lose fat and maintain their >> effort. Compromise just doesn't end well ultimately. Maybe for the average >> person that idea is okay......I'll give ya that. For someone on the edge of >> diabetes, compromise will put them over the edge into the abyss of insulin >> injections and a decline in the quality of life. >> >> On Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:02:23 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: >>> >>> Too much of anything is bad for you. Too many carbs, too much fat, too >>> much protein, too much water, too much alcohol, too much exercise, too much >>> laziness, too much stress, etc. Humans are omnivorous in many ways and >>> can thrive in an amazing variety of situations. >>> >>> Moderation in all things, including moderation. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/WdkkQyxAbJEJ. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/18U8jTj2W4cJ. 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