This makes sense even for my Riv custom. With taller frames and higher bars, 
reaching for downtubers seems, for me, a bit of a stretch.

That wasn't the case on my Dave Porter custom. These days when I ride that bike 
(which I love) I get a crick in my neck but I sure can reach those down tube 
shifters. I wonder now hiw I was ever able to ride the Porter all day, much 
less how I was ever got it over mountain passes with a 42/23. I guess I'm more 
'mature' now.

-JimD
I've had downtubers and knew how to use them.


On Sep 26, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Tom Taylor wrote:

> Fwiw, I had a conversation about this with Kevin at Riv when I was in the 
> process of buying my Sam H.  His explanation was that, what with the sloping 
> top tube and the typical high bar setup, down tube shifters are way down 
> there, a big reach, and don't make sense.  So the bike is basically designed 
> for bar ends.  Never been on one to test this (mine is still an in progress 
> build), but it sounds good.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 26, 2011, at 6:32 PM, René Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Neither does the Betty. AFIK, it saves a little money on these lower cost 
>> frames made in Taiwan. Very few people use DT shifters now so they are 
>> pretty much dissapearing from most lower cost frames. The more expensive 
>> frames like the Hunqapillar, Atlantis, Homer and Bombadil have them.
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 6:29 PM, SamuelJames <samcoal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I noticed that the Hillborne does not have any shifter bosses. Did Grant 
>> ever give a reason for this?  I guess it's not a big deal, just curious.
>> 
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