Today's Topic Summary
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/topics
Y a CD? [7 Updates]
how to measure Nitto model 136AA [1 Update]
Sackville Medium for Camping WAS Re: FS: Sackville medium, reduced
price [6 Updates]
My new Rodeo [4 Updates]
Plethora of Rivendell [2 Updates]
B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom? [2 Updates]
FS: 57cm Bleriot [1 Update]
Fargo versus Bombadil versus Hunq versus Atlantis [1 Update]
double top tube working bike [1 Update]
Topic: Y a CD?
MichaelH <mhech...@gmail.com> Sep 12 05:55PM -0700 ^
> Do you find yourself in the 44 most of the time on flatter terrain?
> It seems like you would rarely use the 30t ring except climbing.
Yes, I am in the 44 most of the time, and do far fewer front end
shifts. But surprisingly I often find myself spinning lower gears on
this set up than I do on a triple, because they are so much easier to
get to. Vermont has very rolling terrain and I can often bounce over
the top of short hills without having to go down to the 30; which I
can't do with a 39 or often even a 34.
> is more cross chaining as well. The triples do shift slower with the
> long cage dérailleur. Seems like you have to choose what works best
> for each of us. I use a 50-40-28 Campy triple with a 11-30 cassette.
I use to think that, but I have found that I can easily spin a 44/11
(which equals a 52/13) up into the mid 30mph range and from there it
is always more advantageous to go into a tuck and reduce the co-
efficient of drag. Jan Hein ran some wind tunnel test, which were
published in BQ, showing that over 28mph the added energy of pedaling
was almost entirely off set by the added wind resistance and you will
actually gain speed faster in a tuck. I have found the threshold to
feel more like 31 or 32. The bigger gear may offer some small
advantage at the very bottom of hills, when you try to maintain
momentum, but it seems like a very little advantage compared to the
disadvantage of a triple. I rode a 50-40-30 for quite a while and
liked it fine, but this is better.
A 53/12 is a sprinting gear and I just don't race guys to the next
sign post to even think about it.
stevep33 <steve...@gmail.com> Sep 12 05:55PM -0700 ^
Pick the gearing that works best most of the time, and don't fret
about the rest. Running 46T/30T compact with 12-27 gives all the
gears and shifting patterns I need. Maybe not enough gear inches to
pedal down a ridiculously fast downhill, but then maybe it's time to
coast and enjoy the ride.
charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com> Sep 12 07:19PM -0700 ^
This makes a bunch of sense unless you live in hilly country and/or
are old and fat as I am. My own recent change (which I am excited
about) has been to use a mountain triple 44x32x22 with a 12-32 seven
speed. There are some climbs in my area where I do use the 22 tooth
front ring in order to save my knees. I do find myself running the 16
and 14 tooth cog quite often in the 44 tooth chain ring on flat ground
and may go back to my Sugino crank for that reason. I rarely pedal the
downhills much anymore as I cannot keep up with my coasting speed
which has been right around 50 mph on two occasions but usually only
in the mid thirties. I thought about going to a 46x30 but would have
to couple that with one of the 34 or 36 max tooth nine speed cog sets
to get my wall climber gear. I did think about building a closer ratio
triple on the large rings with a tiny inner ring for a bailout gear in
order to stay on top of the gears better but I spent a solid year
single speeding (actually a two speed) and I learned to vary my
cadence more and actually slow down a little and relax on the flats
and downhills saving my legs for specific climbs that I could make
without walking.
I wanted to build my current geared bike for any terrain, when I felt
sick or was tired out at the end of a long commute. So far its been
fine enough and has actually allowed me to take some routes that I
have avoided previously due to the steep climbs.
charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com> Sep 12 07:23PM -0700 ^
Nice looking setup and I agree about buying American when possible.
charlie <charles_v...@hotmail.com> Sep 12 07:29PM -0700 ^
I also find that I can stay in my 44 ring and ride over many of the
rollers in my area. Perhaps I am experiencing a similar thing due to
the fact that I am usually only using the 44 and 32 rings and only use
the 22 when I really need it. I'm only two teeth off from your compact
double so perhaps I could go that route in the future......hmmmm!
Michael_S <mikeybi...@rocketmail.com> Sep 12 08:34PM -0700 ^
I like to go fast when I'm in the mood! We have one ride that has a
gradual 10 mile long downhill that follows a nice creek. It's fun to
push a big gear and go. Even on Jack Browns. Some of us on Rivendells
like to motor and some just cruise... for each his own.
~Mike~
rob markwardt <robmar...@hotmail.com> Sep 12 10:14PM -0700 ^
Talk about timing! I received one of the new VO 50.4 doubles (46/30)
this past week, installed it on my Rambouillet yesterday, and took it
on it's maiden voyage this morning. It replaced a Sugino 48/36/26 and
is mated to an 11-32 9 speed freewheel (gear inches 25-111). I
switched mainly because I wanted to lighten up the bike a little, and
I think they look cool.
First off they really do look cool. Nice classic design, high
polish, logos are visible but only up close. Has all the pins and
ramps of modern rings, feels slightly lighter than a set of Sugino PX
cranks I just bought from a list member ( same sized rings). The only
negative is the dust caps. They have a huge hexagon cutout (I don't
think the hole would really keep any dust out and I don't have a
wrench that size...I'm going capless). Installation was a breeze (also
put a new VO bottom bracket) I didn't touch the derailleurs, shifters,
etc and it all lined up and amazingly works just fine.
Took it out for a ninety minute ride this morning traversing Queen
Anne hill in downtown Seattle. Queen Anne has every type of hill
imaginable....long slow ones, incredibly steep ones, nice easy grades
on top and incredibly fast decents. I tried them all today and the
new double performed quite well. I lost a few gear inches with the
new crank but was still able to grind up the big climbs without too
much difficulty. If I ever need to replace the small ring I'd
consider a 28. Shifting to the small ring in preperation for a steep
climb was easy and there didn't seem to be any momentum lost in the
switch. A couple times I found myself in the 46 - 32 combo and was
ready to switch to a lower gear in back when I realized there was
anymore back there. Going down the big descents I had all the gears I
need (disclaimer I have no desire to ever hit 50mph on a bike...45 is
fine thank you) and in reality I almost never touch the 11 tooth
cog. It felt really good on the flat trail heading home and I was
spinning at a good clip... (lower q, placebo effect, tailwind?...I
think I was just hungry!).
Overall, with a sample size of one, I didn't experience any
negatives and had an enjoyable experience. I'll keep riding and we'll
see how it goes but I'm happy I made the switch. Now to figure out
which bike to put that PX crank on.
Rob Markwardt
Seattle
Topic: how to measure Nitto model 136AA
Rene <valbu...@ix.netcom.com> Sep 12 09:57PM -0700 ^
I need help. How do you measure the size of Nitto Randoneur model
136AA? When the size says 42, does it mean the width of the top or the
flared drop? I read it somewhere but I forgot.
Thanks.
Rene
Topic: Sackville Medium for Camping WAS Re: FS: Sackville medium,
reduced price
Rob Harrison <robha...@gmail.com> Sep 12 12:35PM -0700 ^
Hey Forrest,
Did you ever go camping with the Medium? If so, was it big enough? If
you fill it up, does it sag enough to require support, rack or bagman
or similar? The Medium looks like the perfect size for commuting, but
a bit small for S24Os. Would you say that's so? It'd be great to buy
one bag that would do it all, but I'm thinking the Medium might be
stretching it for camping.
From the capacities listed on the Riv site it looks to me like the
Sackville Large (bulged a bit, ~2,034 in3 including the pocket)
approaches the volume of two Ortleib Back Rollers (~2441 in3). The
Back Rollers worked well for me along with carrying my tent and
sleeping pad in a medium Wald basket up front.
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/robharrison/4940395316/in/set-72157624837312162/
Rob in Seattle
On Sep 12, 2010, at 4:37 AM, Forrest wrote:
Stuart Fletcher <stuart.fletc...@gmail.com> Sep 12 01:10PM -0700 ^
Rob, everyone:
> Did you ever go camping with the Medium? If so, was it big enough?
If you
> fill it up, does it sag enough to require support, rack or bagman or
> similar?
I can't speak specifically to the SaddleSack Medium, but I camp with a
Carradice Nelson Longflap + a medium Wald basket and that works well
for me. The capacity on the Carradice is quite similar to the medium
SaddleSack. Here are the capacities in one place for perusal:
Peter White lists the capacity of a Nelson Longflap at 19.6 liters
(unclear if that's with the flap extended or not... I almost never
have to extend the flap for a summer overnight camping load).
The Rivendell site lists the capacity of the medium SaddleSack as:
"Not bulged: 18.6 liters; Bulged but not ridiculous: 23.2 liters; The
pocket adds about .82 liters".
So the capacities are in the same ballpark. In fact it appears the
SaddleSack can hold a bit more than the Carradice.
I'm a light-ish packer(*), and how people pack can obviously vary
widely so this could be an apples-oranges comparison, but the basket +
Carradice combo has worked great for me on overnighters this summer,
and I don't see any reason the same setup couldn't go for 2 or 3
nights (or more). If I didn't have the Carradice I would definitely
consider getting the medium sized SaddleSack with commuting AND
camping in mind.
Don't know if this data point will help you, but thought I'd chime in
with my experience.
Stuart Fletcher
Seattle, WA
*: For a bit more reference, my most current packing scheme has
sleeping bag up front in the basket (it's a Wiggy's that Rivendell
sells in a smaller stuffsack than comes w/ the bag), tent lashed to
top of Carradice (a Tarptent Contrail, so it's nice & small/light),
and sleeping pad under seat/in front of Bagman rack (Thermarest Neoair
-- anything bigger wouldn't fit there). Small bag of personal stuff
goes in basket with sleeping bag and all else is in Carradice,
including a Trangia cooking kit w/ the large-ish (IMO) stand and
windscreen. So bulk isn't as minimized as it could be, but some work
has gone toward that goal. Hope this info helps.
Forrest <ftme...@me.com> Sep 12 02:48PM -0700 ^
Rob -- I did not try camping with the Sackville medium. I did do a
couple weekend credit-card tours with it (and an Acorn handlebar bag).
I didn't need to, but I supported it with a Nitto Top Rack (R14).
I would think the medium Sackville could work well for weekend camping
if you have light/small gear and also can put some stuff on a good
front rack. Plus you can strap a sizeable bit of something on top of
the Sackville with the handy brass D rings up there. -- FM
Mike <mjawn...@gmail.com> Sep 12 05:12PM -0700 ^
I have a Sackville Medium SaddleSack and a Carradice Nelson LF and
much prefer the SaddleSack. It packs stuff better and holds more
stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love Carradice stuff but SaddleSack is
just a bit nicer and works fine without a support. I recently did an
S24O with just a sleeping bag, pad and some other small items and it
was ideal. Here's a photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/4945981066/
Here's a picture from a couple of years ago when I did an S24O using a
Carradice Nelson LF. In fact, this was my first S24O and it was epic,
actually more of an S36O.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/1246536894/in/set-72157615006576577/
I'm heading into Gifford Pinchot NF tomorrow for a 3 day trip but
won't be using my SaddleSack and have opted to use my Ortlieb front
roller pluses on a rear rack and a platrack up front. Services are
very limited in GPNF so there's a need to carry a bit more stuff than
the SS and Platrack would allow. I did a bit of experimenting with the
SS and Ptatrack this morning and it seemed like too much weight riding
too high.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41335...@n00/4982443897/
--mike
Stuart Fletcher <stuart.fletc...@gmail.com> Sep 12 08:49PM -0700 ^
Mike, that's a great looking setup with the Medium SS. I might have
to investigate that as an alternative to the Carradice. Nice to hear
from someone that has used both, as I was merely speculating based on
the listed capacities.
Have a great time on your 3 day trip, sounds like it will be awesome!
Stuart Fletcher
Seattle, WA
Rob Harrison <robha...@gmail.com> Sep 12 09:35PM -0700 ^
Thanks Stewart, Mike and Forrest, that is all immensely helpful. I'm
moving in the ultralight direction, so my gear is getting more compact
as well as getting lighter. A Sackville Medium and a Platrack could be
just the ticket for S24Os, and for credit card touring I substitute
the Lil' Loafer I got from Gino for the Platrack in front, sort of
like Mike's other setup.
Rob in Seattle
On Sep 12, 2010, at 1:10 PM, Stuart Fletcher wrote:
Topic: My new Rodeo
PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> Sep 12 06:46PM -0600 ^
> and FWIW, I've had no issues using a short cage derailer with a
30t in
> the back. I'm sure a 32 would work too.
I've run a short cage Ultegra rd on a mountain bike (long hangar) with
a 14-32 7 sp and it worked fine until the drivetrain got cluttered
with sand.
JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> Sep 12 07:29PM -0700 ^
> I've run a short cage Ultegra rd on a mountain bike (long hangar)
with
> a 14-32 7 sp and it worked fine until the drivetrain got cluttered
> with sand.
Sorry to hijack the thread - although the answer here may help the OP
- but I wonder if the Patricks have any notion what is going on with
my recent restore. I saved a Raleigh Super Course from ignominious
fixiedom. I have a 46-36-26 up front which I wanted to pair with a 13
-30 7 in the back. The Ultegra long cage would not hit the 30.
Switched to a 14-28 which works very well.
Could it be the location of the der hanger? Perhaps the chainstays
are too long?
Bob Cooper <robertcoo...@frontiernet.net> Sep 12 07:32PM -0700 ^
I forgot to mention that on this ride yesterday
http://www.highlandercycletour.com/
on September 11, 2010 (ominous), I dropped my chain going into the big
ring (46) halfway through the ride.
I decided to see how far I could get with just the 30/24 granny and
the 36/13 middle and the combinations in between, i.e., no big ring,
the phillips screwdriver being buried in the bottom of the bag.
Answer: The rest of the ride -- about fifty miles.
Bob “Micro-Drive” Cooper
PS: If your pal is in his full-size (e.g. Ultegra) 42/13 and you are
going down the same stretch of road at the same cadence in your Micro-
Drive 42/13, who is really using a Micro-Drive system?
Doug Van Cleve <dvancl...@gmail.com> Sep 12 09:02PM -0700 ^
Hey Johnny,
Downtube shifters are more classic than barcons and lighter too. A
triple
really isn't classic, and the bottom bracket and cranks are both
heavier
than a traditional double or compact double.
Regards, Doug
P.S. No slight intended, but it seems to me like a lot of Roadeos
are being
built up pretty much the way I would think most AHHs get built up
rather
than as any lighter than average go-fasties...
Topic: Plethora of Rivendell
EricP <ericpl...@aol.com> Sep 12 05:55PM -0700 ^
Spent the weekend doing two different group rides. The Jesse James
Bike Tour from Northfield, MN on Saturday and the St. Paul Bike
Classic today. Besides my Sam Hillborne, saw, and spoke to, an
Atlantis owner on the Jesse James. Weather was good, but for a decent
west wind. Glad only rode the metric century. Was pretty tired by
the time I got home.
Today, though, was different, bike-wise. Besides my Hilborne, saw a
co-worker on her Bleriot. At the start, saw list member Dan and his
custom. Also spoke to an owner of a yellow Ram. Then saw a smaller
blue Ram. And another Atlantis. Different one than yesterday.
Different fenders. Weather was still nice today, although a bit of
wind. The route is more in the city, so less effect, IMO.
Seven Rivendell bikes in two days. Not bad for the middle of nowhere.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> Sep 12 10:29PM -0500 ^
On Sep 12, 2010, at 7:55 PM, EricP wrote:
> Different fenders. Weather was still nice today, although a bit of
> wind. The route is more in the city, so less effect, IMO.
> Seven Rivendell bikes in two days. Not bad for the middle of
nowhere.
My All-Rounder was on the Classic, too.
Topic: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?
cyclotourist <cyclotour...@gmail.com> Sep 12 07:56PM -0700 ^
FWIW, I took a couple quick pix of my B17 and Swift:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/ Other than narrower, you
can
(kinda') see the similar shape.
--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA
Thomas Lynn Skean <thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net> Sep 12 07:59PM -0700 ^
Thanks, all. I think what I'm hearing leads me to believe the shape of
the Team Pro is the biggest "risk" for me; in fact, big enough not to
experiment right now. On today's 20+ mile ride, my B17 felt great.
Maybe better than on my last rude. But I'm losing interest in trying
the Team Pro.
Thanks again for all the info!
Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean
Topic: FS: 57cm Bleriot
Gene Novark <gnov...@gmail.com> Sep 12 06:02PM -0700 ^
Bike is sold pending payment.
Topic: Fargo versus Bombadil versus Hunq versus Atlantis
Garth <garth...@gmail.com> Sep 12 05:45PM -0700 ^
FWIW ... the Bombadil won't take a 65mm tire. It's not intended to.
Fork clearance is about 64mm, the rear is about the same. This is tube
to tube, but you gotta leave some clearance room, hence it's spec'd at
2.3" , or 58.4mm for tire clearance. Actual tire width of course, and
this varies a lot depending on the rim.
Topic: double top tube working bike
JimD <rasterd...@comcast.net> Sep 12 05:23PM -0700 ^
Fantastic!
We should discuss helmets now.
-JImD
On Sep 11, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Rene Valbuena wrote:
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