I think this suggests that the Sam Hill does not have the geometrical features that Jan and many others would think are better for accommodating a front load, at least an over-wheel front load.
The trail of a 60 cm SH is 59 mm and the flop (rise/fall) is 17.4 mm. Bikes that have been noted (by Jan and others) as having better handling with front loads have rather lower trail and flop numbers. Rather than navigate the intricacies farther, I'll leave it at that. OTOH, some claim to have found that actual geometry matters a lot less than does the stability of the front bag. After my experiments with my Woodrup, I wonder it it isn't enough to make sure the front load isn't swinging, and that the center of gravity of the added load is behind the front axle. On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 2:00 PM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Very interesting post. I was particularly struck by this: > > " Suffice to say that the effect of the front load on the steering can be > harnessed to make a bicycle handle better with a front load than without, > but only if the bike’s geometry is suitable for a front load. *Such a > touring bike, fully loaded, handles as well as a good racing bike, whether > cornering hard, riding no- hands (not recommended, of course), or climbing > out of the saddle*." (Emphasis added.) > > But on the Sam Hill -- he said expertly, having ridden with a light front > load fully 6 miles -- just the opposite obtains: turns are harder to > initiate, the bike wants to track wide, and it feels a bit squirrely in the > corner; all this compared to a load (much heavier, too) on a very stiff and > low slung Tubus Logo. So I conclude (to be confirmed, I will guess, by more > front load riding) that the SH is best with rear loads and only light ones > in front. We'll see. > > I know that touristo extraordinaire Craig Montgomery said onlist that a > well designed and well loaded touring bike will handle impeccably (I am > paraphrasing, not quoting); and perhaps the Sam Hill is just not the optimum > tourer. But it will certainly do well enough. > > I am consoled that, on my two remaining Riv customs (fixies both), the > butt-back, long rear-center, shortish front-center handling with skinny, > short wheels, is wonderful. > > > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 10:14 AM, muckum <toddjeffr...@sbcglobal.net>wrote: > >> You may want to read this article on loads. It may help your >> configuration. >> >> >> http://www.adventurecycling.org/resources/display_resource.cfm?file=200906_MechanicalAdvantage_Heine.pdf >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 10, 3:50 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Inaugural ride -- yes, brief; 11-12 m rt to grocery store and PO and >> back -- >> > with, upon return, a total of 10 lb, including panniers themselves, >> slung >> > low on the Tara. So: what is my initial impression after, granted, no >> more >> > than six miles? >> > >> > 1. 10 lb does not seem to materially help front end stability; the bike >> > still has the slight "wandering" feeling so absent from my other Rivs. >> This >> > on the straight and levels. I did not have a chance to test it up a 12% >> > grade in a sub 30" gear. >> > >> > 2. Turning is more cumbersome: one virtue of the Sam Hill is that, when >> you >> > lean, it turns. With the 10 lb, steering is definitely slower and >> requires >> > more conscious input. >> > >> > So, I assume that some bikes are just not as front load friendly as >> others? >> > I must add 10 to 20 more lbs in front to try out a real load. And, of >> > course, put on more front loaded miles before I conclude with finality. >> But >> > I suspect that this bike, as my Motobecane, really prefers rear loads. >> No? >> > >> > http://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#54924133109236. >> .. >> > >> > -- >> > Patrick Moore >> > Albuquerque, NM >> > For professional resumes, contact >> > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > Patrick Moore > Albuquerque, NM > For professional resumes, contact > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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