Leah
Either the Tallux 225mm quill stem or the Faceplater 225mm quill stem will
raise the expander bolt by 55mm (280 - 225) or the *same* bar height.
This will allow the expander bolt to be above the butted section. See if
the noise goes away just by having the 225mm stem above the butted section.
If you desire, you probably could lower either 225mm stems by 20mm and
still be above the butted section.
John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Wednesday, October 9, 2024 at 5:12:02 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
wrote:
> John,
>
> The initial stem was the Tallux 12 cm, 225 long.
>
> The stem I had in the parts box and just installed is Nitto, 10 cm, 280
> mm. That 280 was bought before I started club riding and wanting the bars
> lower. That 280 is slammed in the the steerer now. I’ll raise it before I
> ride it, but that Faceplater in 225 should arrive soon. And when it does,
> I’m going to find that slot and put Krazy glue in there. And thanks for
> pointing out that there would be a slot!
>
> To all of you: what would I do without you? I’d be out there with my
> ticking and loose headsets with my wedges fighting for purchase in the
> narrowing steerer! A whole mess out here.
>
> Also, why don’t any of you live here. I could use a mentor over here!
> Leah
>
> On Oct 9, 2024, at 2:30 AM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners
> Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Leah
>
> Just to amplify what Noah pointed out on the internal butting in the head
> tube, if you have the stem QUILL all the way down, then you need to raise
> the stem so the expander bolt is above the butting.
> *If* raising the stem quill, to clear the internal butting, results in
> the bars being too high, *then* you need a stem with a Shorter Quill, but
> the same stem extension. Per the 2019 catalog, Nitto makes the Technomic
> stem ("NTC") in QUILL LENGTHS of 150mm, 225mm, and 280mm. The RBW site
> shows only the 225mm version (Tallux).
>
> Also, the 40mm hole Will and Nitto mentions, may be a slot in the sleeve
> in the center of the sleeve, NOT the ends of the sleeve. This would NOT be
> visible with the bar in the stem. You may want to slide the bar out of the
> stem to verify if the slot exists.
>
> If your new face platter stem has a shorter quill than your existing stem,
> the face platter stem may solve the slammed stem problem.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 8:58:41 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> Noah, I did NOT KNOW THIS. And that new stem is slammed way down in
>> there. I have a Faceplater coming and will install it immediately. Thanks
>> for this but also 😱.
>>
>> Although we still don’t know that it’s the stem, and in fact, Will thinks
>> it’s the sleeve on the bars. He decided to ask Nitto about that sleeve and
>> probably sent the video of my ticking bike. He emailed today and I will
>> include this because so many people are reporting problems with the sleeved
>> Nitto bars:
>>
>> HI Leah,
>>
>> OK, I heard straight from the source, Yoshikawa-san himself. He says: "If
>> you hear a sound in the center of the handlebar, apply a drop of Krazy Glue
>> on each side of the 40mm long hole in the outer pipe.
>> This usually eliminates the sound. Do not put oil in it, it is not good.”
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the 40mm long hole is the sleeve. Try it out! I will, too.
>>
>> -will
>>
>>
>> Of course I already put oil in there so maybe my experiment will be a
>> dud. I want to order a new steel bar with no sleeve.
>>
>> Leah
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2024, at 12:01 PM, Noah Hirschl <nthi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Enjoying following this thread and the process of discovery! (Sorry
>> that it is at your expense, Leah :)). I had the dreaded ticking on some
>> sleeved choco bars with a Nitto quill (not on a riv, a vintage trek). It
>> was only when I leveraged one side of the bars. I put drop bars on the bike
>> and it went away, but who knows it that’s the leverage change or the new
>> bars!
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, seeing the reference to slamming the stem in the head tube in the
>> last post, just in case you haven’t seen it before, see attached diagram
>> from Sheldon’s site <https://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html> about
>> potential dangers of that (which I mention because I saw it for the first
>> time just a few weeks ago)
>>
>>
>> Noah in Brookline, VT
>> On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 3:19:41 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t remember if I updated here…I had a Nitto Tallux 12 cm stem on my
>>> bike that I pulled this weekend. I had a tall Nitto 280 mm 10 cm stem that
>>> I wasn’t using, so in order to eliminate one thing at a time and
>>> reevaluate, that’s the plan. I rode 6 miles today and nothing. Everything
>>> feels solid, no noise. The bars are up too high, though. I want to lower
>>> them but that stem is slammed all the way in the head tube and can’t go
>>> lower. Because they are higher and closer than my normal setup, I can’t
>>> yank on them and put my weight on them like I normally do. So they might be
>>> behaving because they are not under duress.
>>>
>>> Also of note. I would get a now-and-then vibration that sounded like
>>> maybe my metal front fender. It would happen at high speeds, which is
>>> usually hammering on a club ride. That was non-existent today. Wondering if
>>> it’s not the fender and instead something in that head tube/stem interface…
>>>
>>> I really hate this.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2024, at 2:55 PM, Brian Campbell <bdcamp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Given that the issue was solved by lubricating the bars previously (as
>>> mentioned above ^^^^) I would try a bar swap first. If you have bars that
>>> are 25.4 and have no sleeve on hand that are not being used they would be
>>> my first choice.
>>>
>>>
>>> If not these are an inexpensive way to diagnose the issue and it seems
>>> you are good with swapping bars on your own.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Handlebar-Handlebars-Replacement-Component-Aluminum/dp/B0CSMTRRGF/ref=sr_1_24?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Gw9_I8wrRr8dt9fq-LybtGUhzpjQ77_hjcQ87kbcXteYmQ0rXAWD5AHf8MLTZOdNNKbNJidDVMEgzd6f9pUhb1Lgu10Gwkdc6-oHIyuz9VIYGGggknQvBjBVt84Cmt3TtFfFVNW5viPWW3B07zPRqBwYAdLhEzpsN4MDY3qda-6Xf1CjPJebRrytcS0BMn54xuf8Ls7msIbzY6u7VjaVAAtrFnKz46KT_Wqsn8T4PcmTNoldGOa_wYanGPDNg9PGI4dTd82Tz9PvRtArKDHtTfEZ23NoLW_8wjWHGpIAwDs.TgSuzlhrtFRpmoiL2BVPW9j9kvJu7GTlSg_f7Hrlnmw&dib_tag=se&keywords=25.4%2Bsilver%2Bhandle%2Bbar&qid=1728321716&sr=8-24&th=1&psc=1
>>>
>>> Good luck!
>>> On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 12:11:22 PM UTC-4 Mathias Steiner wrote:
>>>
>>>> On the facts & observations side, we now have one clicking handlebar
>>>> sleeve, and two (maybe three?) instances of clicking being resolved by
>>>> cleaning, greasing, and reinstalling the stem into the steerer tube.
>>>>
>>>> We've had zero reports of clicking resolved by headset work, though
>>>> it's a reasonable possibility.
>>>>
>>>> I'd exhaust the first two possiblities before going to the trouble of
>>>> squaring and facing a head tube that may or may not need it.
>>>> I vote "not need" because it was fine for years.
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 11:14:56 AM UTC-4 bmfo...@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I recently had a tick develop out of the blue on my 1989 schwinn probe
>>>>> commuter. Nitto stem with the KT bars. I uninstalled and reinstalled the
>>>>> stem and it fixed it. I think the wedge may have been slightly loose and
>>>>> got bound up within the fork steerer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Little noises like that drive me nuts so i was happy to have it easily
>>>>> resolved. Good luck Leah!
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 9:58:56 AM UTC-5 mwill...@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rivendell is very clear on their website as to why they don’t face
>>>>>> and chase frames. They state that they will do it if asked for $30. I’ve
>>>>>> done my own bottom bracket shells on two of my bikes that use a cup and
>>>>>> cone style bottom bracket, but I’ve been fortunate enough to not have an
>>>>>> issue with head tubes. Best wishes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 7, 2024, at 4:16 AM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW
>>>>>> Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on the history of the 3 Platys, facing the HT on the one from
>>>>>> Vegas (assuming this is the ticing one) may be a good idea based on what
>>>>>> Peter White mentioned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You may want to replace the headset also since they will drive out
>>>>>> the existing fixed cups to do the facing and your local shop apparently
>>>>>> mangled the adjustable cup. The original headset in your other 2
>>>>>> Platys
>>>>>> appear to work ok if the HT faced, so buying a new one should work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other unknown is the alignment of the steerer tube in the fork
>>>>>> crown, as Peter pointed out This could be checked/measured for
>>>>>> perpendicularity when they do the facing since the fork & steerer tube
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be out of the frame and can easily be checked. Ask the list members
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to measure the alignment of the steerer tube in the fork crown and what
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> do if it is not square.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Hawrylak
>>>>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 10:54:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>>>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess we’ll never know. It came from Riv, and it was their sample
>>>>>>> for their 1st gen Platypuses. It was assembled at a Vegas shop that was
>>>>>>> heavily racing/roadbike oriented. The mechanic is no longer there and I
>>>>>>> don’t remember if those were the days when Riv was still doing frame
>>>>>>> prep.
>>>>>>> This tic on the stem is new and I’ve had the bike nearing 4 years. Can
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> show up as an issue 4 years later?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 2nd Platy came from Analog, and since someone posted that Analog
>>>>>>> DOES do frame prep, I’ll likely never worry about that one. The newest
>>>>>>> purple Platy was done here, and to make the Ignite Components stuff
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> they had to “face the bottom bracket” and it was a real challenge to
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> those cranks and bottom bracket to work on my frame. Maybe they went
>>>>>>> ahead
>>>>>>> and faced the head tube while they were at it? I don’t know!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2024, at 10:29 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW
>>>>>>> Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garth stated; " The head tube facing is supposed to be at the time
>>>>>>> of manufacture...". I think we all agree, but I'm not sure if it
>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> done, it's 'unscrupulous'. I think most mass produced frames are
>>>>>>> faced/chased by the manufacturer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I think is poor quality, is whoever assembled Leah's Platy
>>>>>>> (RBW??) may not have faced the HT. It's a shame, since it is 10 minute
>>>>>>> operation if done on a bare frame, but probably a 1 hour job after the
>>>>>>> frame is assembled, with removing the stem, disconnecting cables,
>>>>>>> remove
>>>>>>> the fixed cups and then put it all back together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Leah might want to ask whoever assembled it, if the HT was faced,
>>>>>>> along with the BB shell. Maybe it was. If it was, then it could be
>>>>>>> removed from being a cause.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Hawrylak
>>>>>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 7:53:55 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The head tube facing is supposed to be at the time of manufacture,
>>>>>>>> along with the reaming and tapping of the threads. If the factory
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> comprehend it, then it's up to the retailer to do this at no
>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>> charge. I'm surprised how it's being accepted as normal, acceptable or
>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>> expected. That work is part of what you're paying for with a new
>>>>>>>> frame.
>>>>>>>> Charging extra would be, to me, unscrupulous. And that's that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 2:40:25 PM UTC-4 Matti wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a Sam Hillborne and noticed a headset problem when climbing
>>>>>>>>> and applying upper body force to the bars... It was a distinct fore
>>>>>>>>> and aft
>>>>>>>>> movement that could be felt (but not heard) and it was hard to
>>>>>>>>> duplicate
>>>>>>>>> the sensation when bike was static on the floor while rocking the
>>>>>>>>> bike back
>>>>>>>>> and forth with front brake applied. I tried multiple times to adjust
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> headset, with no luck. I finally brought the bike into a shop and
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> adjusted the headset, telling me it was loose. So far it seems the
>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>> is fixed, but if it comes back, I'll see if the head tube needs
>>>>>>>>> machining/alignment recommended by Peter White. I think that process
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> considered standard practice for frame prep in some shops:
>>>>>>>>> https://analogcycles.com/pages/frame-prep
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 5, 2024 at 3:10:26 PM UTC-7
>>>>>>>>> peter...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Leah,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My wife and I both ride Rivendell frames. She has an Atlantis,
>>>>>>>>>> and I have a Rambouillet. They both ride wonderfully. The frame
>>>>>>>>>> geometry is
>>>>>>>>>> excellent. But they both had the same issues with the steerer
>>>>>>>>>> tube machining and head tube machining that all Rivendell frames
>>>>>>>>>> have,
>>>>>>>>>> except for the custom frames. The ends of the head tube are not
>>>>>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>>>>>> perpendicular to the geometric axis of the head tube, and the fork
>>>>>>>>>> crowns
>>>>>>>>>> are not precisely machined so that the headset parts don't always
>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>> up correctly. Take your bike to an experienced mechanic who has the
>>>>>>>>>> appropriate tools to machine the head tune and the fork crown so
>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> headset components are in the correct alignment. Then your bike will
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> shine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Email me directly and I'll try to find a shop that can fix this
>>>>>>>>>> for you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> p...@peterwhitecycles.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 4:29 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ted, I’ve had the loose clunking headset on my Betty Foy and
>>>>>>>>>>> your description is my memory of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I got 19 miles in this morning. At first, everything was
>>>>>>>>>>> blissfully quiet and sturdy. By mile 12 the ticking came back. Not
>>>>>>>>>>> as bad,
>>>>>>>>>>> but it’s there. Remember in the video when I applied pressure to
>>>>>>>>>>> the left
>>>>>>>>>>> grip and could initiate the sound? Now it’s in the right grip. I
>>>>>>>>>>> can’t do
>>>>>>>>>>> it consistently and there doesn’t seem to be correlation with
>>>>>>>>>>> weight on the
>>>>>>>>>>> bars. I did throw that bike around heartily today. I took it on a
>>>>>>>>>>> wooded
>>>>>>>>>>> trail with tons of tree roots to bash over and inclines to stand up
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> pull on the bars.
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It’s just so frustrating. I’m worried there’s a more sinister
>>>>>>>>>>> problem, like in the head tube/steerer. Like, please not the frame.
>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>> replace any component and will do so with gladness, but please let
>>>>>>>>>>> my frame
>>>>>>>>>>> be ok. It’s my #1 favorite bike and it’s so special.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe thinks maybe a new headset. I wonder if I should spring for
>>>>>>>>>>> new bars and stem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Buying new things to address unknown problems with old
>>>>>>>>>>> things…sounds expensive. But I’d do it if I knew it would fix the
>>>>>>>>>>> ticking.
>>>>>>>>>>> L
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 2024, at 8:50 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 4, 2024 at 4:43:09 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle
>>>>>>>>>>> Ding Ding! wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> He found that the headset was loose, so he tightened that too
>>>>>>>>>>> (and mashed the headset cup or spacer or whatever in the process).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's worth noting that, while the frames ship with headsets,
>>>>>>>>>>> they aren't installed. Despite trying to be careful about
>>>>>>>>>>> installation, I
>>>>>>>>>>> have found on all three of my Sams that the FSA headsets seem to
>>>>>>>>>>> loosen up
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty quickly after initial installation, and the linear bearings
>>>>>>>>>>> seem to
>>>>>>>>>>> want the adjustable surface to be pretty tight, tighter than normal
>>>>>>>>>>> ball
>>>>>>>>>>> bearing headsets.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I wouldn't describe the sound of a loose headset as
>>>>>>>>>>> "ticking", it's more like "clunking" and is readily felt and seen
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> applying the front brake and pushing the bike forward and back.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And I would be irate if a shop mechanic handed back my bike with
>>>>>>>>>>> a mangled part. My headset locknuts are bit scuffed but I only have
>>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>>> to blame :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ted Durant
>>>>>>>>>>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/00dc9fa9-1594-4c78-ad38-9d6f68f14bd7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Peter White
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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