citing another instance of brass ferrule stuck in a deore RD, this time in NYC (where summers and winters can both be humid) On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:41:25 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
> > Hey eric, > > Yeah ive had similar issues. Had a mildly stuck cable end in a silver 2, > think i was able to get it out with a needle and small hammer, basically > punched it out. Noticed the brass ferrule corrosion too. I’m still working > through a stash of them, but ive also been getting over my brass preference > in favor of lightweight aluminum where reasonable, like headset spacers. > I’ll have to check my brass crank extractor caps as mentioned by others… > On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 2:17:25 PM UTC-7 Danny wrote: > >> Thanks for the write-up Eric. I'll give my brass parts a once over a >> couple times a year after reading this. Did you grease your ferrule >> exteriors before installing? >> >> I typically give any brass part a liberal greasing before installing, >> which in theory should help prevent, or at least slow galvanic corrosion. >> But maybe areas that see more moisture like crank caps/extractors need more >> frequent attention. >> >> -Danny >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 4:07 PM AppaLanta <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> @Patrick, perhaps these kind of products... >>> >>> >>> https://www.cytech.training/uploaded_files/study_documents/7.%20Lubricants%20and%20Greases.pdf >>> >>> ...suggesting a copper-based grease to be used between dissimilar >>> metals. This seems like a prevention of the symptom (corrosion) rather >>> than the cause (using dissimilar metals when similar could be used in the >>> first place)? >>> >>> @Eric, thanks for this post. I forgot to say - I really appreciate your >>> videos! >>> >>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 4:45:27 PM UTC-4 [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> A friend swore off the brass self extractors (White Industries, Blue >>>> Lug, Etc.) for exactly these same reasons. >>>> >>>> He’s been encouraging me to do the same for over a year now. >>>> >>>> I really should replace the two sets I have, even here in arid Southern >>>> California. >>>> >>>> P. W. >>>> ~ >>>> (917) 514-2207 >>>> ~ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2024, at 1:29 PM, Patrick Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Eric: Thanks for the clear and comprehensive description and the >>>> warning about brass-on-aluminum. >>>> >>>> Remark: I am so very glad that high humidity where I live is 50% and >>>> that's seasonal and rare. >>>> >>>> Question (to all): are there not marine greases or applications made >>>> precisely to prevent such corrosion? >>>> >>>> Patrick Moore, who had a very nice late "monsoon" mid-afternoon ride >>>> just now at an about-normal 90*F and 23% humidity in a very comfortable ss >>>> wool jersey. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 9:58 AM Eric Marth <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> *Before we begin I must admit that I should have documented the process >>>>> below in greater detail. I realize it would have made for video content >>>>> that at least a few people here would have found worthwhile. This >>>>> mechanical occurred as I was trying to sneak in a 90 minute ride before >>>>> it >>>>> got dark and I was determined to get it resolved as quickly as I could >>>>> without stopping for pictures or documentation. * >>>>> >>>>> *I have a few questions about the problems I encountered. Rather than >>>>> searching the Web for answers I've included my questions below, hopeful >>>>> that forum members can share their knowledge. In addition to expertise on >>>>> bicycles I'm aware that some members are scientists and engineers who >>>>> might >>>>> have fun pockets of information to share with the group. * >>>>> >>>>> I run Silver bar end shifters on my Sam Hillborne. Recently I left for >>>>> a ride and once I got a few blocks from my house I realized the front >>>>> derailer was rubbing the chain. When I went to trim the gear the shift >>>>> lever slipped into the relaxed position and dropped the chain to the >>>>> small >>>>> ring up front. I tightened the wingnut to restore tension but there was >>>>> no >>>>> tension to be found. I had an idea of what was going on: the ratchet was >>>>> clogged with corrosion, preventing the spring from engaging the pawl. I >>>>> rode home in a very easy gear. >>>>> >>>>> Back in the shop I loosened the clamp bolt on the front derailer to >>>>> free the cable. When I went to pull the cable out of the shifter lever it >>>>> wouldn't budge. The head of the shifter cable had chemically bonded to >>>>> the >>>>> lever itself. I removed the nuts and bolts that hold the lever to the >>>>> bar-end shifter pod. I should note that I had previously replaced the >>>>> external plastic nut cover with a brass counter-sink washer. I think the >>>>> presence of the brass encouraged corrosion. I then struggled to get the >>>>> cable out even with the lever freed from the pod. >>>>> >>>>> I then noticed that the brass ferrule I'd used at the end of the shift >>>>> cable housing had bonded to the bar-end pod. I now had two instances of >>>>> dissimilar metals bonding together. >>>>> >>>>> I snipped the shift cable, pinched the loose end with pliers and tried >>>>> to wiggle and finesse it free. No luck! I tried to drill out the head of >>>>> the cable, that also didn't work. I decided to abandon the shifter and >>>>> salvage the innards for parts. >>>>> >>>>> <IMG_2311.JPG> >>>>> >>>>> <IMG_2309.JPG> >>>>> >>>>> *Terrible pictures showing drilled head of shifter cable and snipped >>>>> off cable stuck in lever.* >>>>> >>>>> I store my bikes in my shed, an unconditioned and uninsulated space in >>>>> Virginia. It is very humid here. The spot where I hang my Hillborne seems >>>>> to attract a lot of moisture and I really need to find another place to >>>>> store that bike. Sometimes when it rains the handlebars feel damp and >>>>> corrosion forms around the seatpost collar, on the chaingring bolts and >>>>> the >>>>> rear dropouts. The roof of my shed does not leak. I think the rust >>>>> accumulation has to do with ventilation issues and related to the bicycle >>>>> hanging between a door and a window, there must be some kind of draft >>>>> situation going on and that spot is a real moisture magnet. I don't have >>>>> the same problem with other bikes I hang in adjacent spots. >>>>> >>>>> *What causes the shifter cable head to bond to the lever? What >>>>> materials are the shifter cable head and Silver shifter levers made from? >>>>> Do the dissimilar metals encourage bonding when moisture is present? What >>>>> causes the brass to bond to the bar-end shifter pod?* >>>>> >>>>> In my video about repairing Pam's Silver shifters >>>>> <https://youtu.be/0g67pjAPYZk?si=KxIEpojn7V_bcoUy> I mentioned >>>>> corrosion as a potential problem with a Silver shifter that doesn't hold >>>>> tension. Here was an opportunity to show the world! I was frustrated and >>>>> eager to get it fixed quickly. Setting up to make a video really bogs >>>>> things down. >>>>> >>>>> I took the lever with the cold-welded shifter cable stuck inside and >>>>> pried it open. Indeed, the spring was clogged with corrosion. The >>>>> corrosion >>>>> was chalky and white, resembling the type of build up sometimes seen on >>>>> car >>>>> battery terminals. With the spring clogged it won't push against the pawl >>>>> which won't hold position on the ratchet wheel which won't allow the >>>>> lever >>>>> to hold tension to counteract the spring action of the derailer. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks to board member Mike Godwin, who sent me some old Suntour >>>>> levers to help repair Pam's shifters, I had some extra parts around. >>>>> Shifter bodies (one good, one broken), spare cover plates and some >>>>> ratchet >>>>> wheels. I also had replacement springs I'd ordered from McMaster-Carr. I >>>>> mated one of the Suntour levers from Mike with parts from my damaged >>>>> lever >>>>> and got them put back together. Pinching the parts together I could tell >>>>> the ratchet was working. I set it aside to work on the shifter pod. >>>>> >>>>> <IMG_2312.JPG> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The brass ferrule had welded to the pod. I tried to pull it out with >>>>> pliers. No luck. I'd encountered a welded brass ferrule before so I was >>>>> relatively sure before I started that I wouldn't get it freed. I've heard >>>>> that squelching is one method that sometimes works to free welded parts >>>>> but >>>>> I didn't have the means or patience to heat the parts. So instead I >>>>> decided >>>>> to saw off the ferrule and file it flush with the pod. I could run the >>>>> shifter cable into the remnant of the ferrule. >>>>> >>>>> <IMG_2308.JPG> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With the ferrule flushed up I reinstalled the pod in conjunction with >>>>> seating the shifter cable. I installed a new shift cable and re-installed >>>>> the newly rebuilt shifter lever. >>>>> >>>>> <IMG_2313.JPG> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I got the shifter wired up and everything worked as intended. >>>>> >>>>> I have a newfound reluctance to use brass parts going forward. While >>>>> my love of brass is well documented in my builds it has caused me several >>>>> problems over a short few years. Twice my bar-end shifters have stopped >>>>> working, I believe due to corrosion encouraged by the presence of brass >>>>> and >>>>> the contact between dissimilar metals. I have also twice had brass >>>>> ferrules >>>>> get welded to other parts. Here on the Hillborne it was the ferrule and >>>>> the >>>>> shifter pod. On my MB-2 it was a ferrule that welded to a Suntour brake >>>>> lever. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps you can use brass parts if you live in drier climes or have >>>>> better luck than I do. But I'm going to be phasing brass out of my bikes >>>>> and builds from here out. Or until I move to the desert. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for reading along and happy trails :0) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d491863-15d7-42c9-8611-b9110b904c53n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d491863-15d7-42c9-8611-b9110b904c53n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Patrick Moore >>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >>>> services >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >>>> >>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >>>> >>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguVmg7f0eAEr-oM2bo2aMVwx_LiTCYFdc7jfqBoPHBcYQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguVmg7f0eAEr-oM2bo2aMVwx_LiTCYFdc7jfqBoPHBcYQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0299797-bf11-47c2-8934-94a26f45d15an%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0299797-bf11-47c2-8934-94a26f45d15an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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