I've urged this before and I urge it again: Peter Jon White's basic bike fitting primer is an excellent starting point because it sets out the basic principles of good bike fit in reference to comfort and power, the basic goals of good bike fit.
I have a long torso and short limbs -- Asian build on Anglo scale. Long, long ago I read about KOPS in Bicycling and said to myself, "That is what I want." But in addition to having short femurs I have a personal predilection for full leg extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This is not a value judgement, just a preference. I had a lovely 531C 1989 Falcon with very short front center (hard to get finger between front tire and tt) and longish (original Riv-length 42.5 to middle of horizontal dropouts) chainstays. Sure, 57 c-c was probably after all a bit short for me, but because of KOPS I went out and replaced the road seatpost with a long Logic mtb post and installed the Flite *all the way forward* in the cradle; it would slip forward, not backward until I used blue Loctite. To get sufficient reach to bar I used a 140 mm Cinelli 1A (6" below saddle). All this for KOPS. What a can of worms. Fast downhills sweepers, especially with gusty sidewinds were terrifying. I'd skip the rear wheel when standing and mildly honking up hills in a 65" gear. I set up my 1992 XO-1 and various other bikes in the same way, then later complained to Grant that I felt that I was "losing the pedal stroke" over top dead center. He counseled shoving the saddle back and raising it while raising and shortening the stem. Pedaling Nirvana; comfort as well as power, not to mention handling back to normal. Bike fit principles: get your saddle in place as to height and fore/aft position first. This is crucial both for pedaling torque and for comfort, since "balancing" your torso with respect to the bb means that your torso muscles hold up the torso and you don't rely on your shoulders, arms, and hands. Then choose your bar. Then choose a stem that puts the bar in a place that gives you a torso bend that lets you pedal comfortably and powerfully. It's simple, really, and it works; PJW and Grant basically agree on fundamentals. On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 7:57 PM Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't agree at all that someone with a long torso and average length of > legs should use a longer setback seatpost to accommodate it.* Just > picture yourself on a bike, and suddenly your spine is elongated 6 inches. > Your legs haven't changed at all and neither should your saddle position.* > What's called for is a longer frame with an appropriately long stem and > bars that aren't overly swept back as that rather defeats the goal of > accommodating your longer torso. While Kim says "I'm comfortable", sure the > reach is now great, but you're also notably further back of the saddle than > you need to be. From the photos of your Clem you showed the stem isn't very > long for someone with a long torso, and Bosco bars aren't helping either. > If you simply added in stem length the appx. amount of extra setback from > the post(2-3cm), then you could return to a normal setback post and you > keep the same reach. > > From my experience in being too far back as opposed to being in a normal > setback position, is the onset of hamstring, back of knee and butt muscle > pain. Not to mention feeling off center of the BB. Once I returned to a > normal position, using my quads much more and my core muscles for support, > all those went away and pedaling is notably more effective. What Jay > described in adding his reach forward and using his core more effectively > to accommodate his longer torso I can relate to. > > In my opinion sitting up and back on a bike is all wrong as you can't use > your core muscles effectively. I get that people do it, and Riv promotes > it, nevertheless, that's what I think of it. > > Anyone would be right to question what I speak of. I question everyone and > myself too. Just because I don't have a bike shop or a title doesn't mean I > don't know what I'm talking about tough, or that anyone who has a bike shop > or a title does know what they're talking about. I've been to one > "professional" fitter in my life, and their "advice" would have placed me > on a frame with a much too short of top tube. I told them to add 3cm or no > deal on the custom frame from them. I got the 3cm and I still joyfully ride > that frame today. > > Enjoy the ride. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsK8vXRa2j72A5wCU%2BDZet%3DB1wj063AsDtz_rabUmkHDA%40mail.gmail.com.
