I lean forward but not downward with the Tosco bars on my Clem. I get neck 
pain when the forward lean is also downward over long distances so the bars 
being above the saddle is my preference. The grip portion of the bars does 
sit me upright but the bars have a couple of forward areas that I use as 
well.
Doug

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:

> 52 tooth granny cog? 
>
> Philip 
> SR, CA
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
>> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
>> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
>> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
>> Someone explain.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
>>> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
>>> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
>>> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
>>> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
>>> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
>>> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
>>> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
>>> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
>>> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
>>> stem after all.
>>>
>>

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