I had no idea Sams ever came in a caliper brake version. No way am I taking my 320 pound triplet with 2 kids down the kind of dirt descents I'd take the single bike. But I have descended 20%+ grades on the triplet with mid reach calipers. But yeah, with that kind of weight I'd skid both wheels since the triplet never endos. (And yes, I've successfully recovered from skidding front wheels on tandems) Having said that mountain biking is the one application where I like disc brakes. My low end hydraulics squeal like a stuck pig but they've proven less maintenance hassle than Paul's Neo Retros or other cantilevers.
On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 9:52:23 AM UTC-7 Pancake wrote: > The brake debate! Here's where my Sam's r559 brakes couldn't keep up with > my size (too heavy, 250+ then) and the gravel/dirt downhill grade (-26.1 > degrees) on our way to climb the fire trails of Mt. Diablo: > [image: Crystal Ranch drop in Lime Ridge Open Space.jpg] > This steep segment is called "Crystal Ridge drop in" and there was a lot > of drop! My friend (who snagged the Sam for me when it was listed on the > Blahg) on his Homer and me on the sidepull Sam. We knew we were underbiking > by a bit as a dozen teens on full suspension carbon bikes were flying > around doing wheelies and looking at us like we must be lost in the Lime > Ridge open space . > The r559 brakes (salmon yokozuna pads) pulled by TRP levers were *just > *strong enough > (I was pulling *hard*) to *nearly* lock the tires up in this situation. > Never felt so close to the edge of the braking capacity before. I would > have either lost traction on the tires and fallen if they locked up, or not > been able to slow enough and fallen if I needed to turn even a little on > the very steep grade. At some point I simply had to release a bit of my > death grip on the levers and got lucky that I could ride it out to the end. > My fingers were tired after that and my heart was racing. Thrilling to be > honest! > But on my Charlie with v-brakes (DXR brake arms, Avid FR-5 brake levers, > koolstop e-brake gray compound pads) I'm confident I would have had better > modulated and stronger braking power with nearly all the same other > components as I've swapped them between these two bikes (including the > Schwalbe G-one Allround 700x45mm tires). > > This reminds me that I want to put canti posts on my Cheviot! Though as a > commuter the r559 brakes are plenty strong, sometimes I just want to take > it somewhere steep ... or stop right away in the rain when a drive turns > right in front of me without signaling. The main reason I haven't yet is > that I wonder if the $200-300 in welding costs would be better saved to > spend on a Platypus ... in silver apparently? ... someday. > > The Sam and the Charlie do cross over into each other's territory - that's > why I'll be selling the Sam soon even though that double top tube in 56cm > frame is something I'll never find again. A testament to the Gallop's speed > and stopping power! > > Abe > On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:23:24 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote: > >> Phew, heated brake debate! There isn't much else to talk about with the >> Charlie since we have no recent news, so it's a good use of this thread >> perhaps. >> >> I should clarify: I don't mind side-pull/caliper brakes from a >> performance standpoint, although the longer reach models required on this >> bike are not as good as medium and short reach models. For me it was the >> limitations that caliper brakes put on tire & fender clearance that is >> unfortunate. But the CHG is meant to be a road and light gravel bike so >> fitting even 38mm tires with fenders is fine in reality. I'm also using >> this bike in rain and snow so I wanted the extra power of V's as well as >> the extra fender clearance for knobby winter tires. But those are beyond >> the typical use-cases for this bike. >> >> I totally see the caliper-lover's point of view on this - there are a lot >> more canti stud Rivs than caliper Rivs these days. No doubt calipers look a >> little sleeker on a roadish bike too. Maybe as Scott suggests we'll see a >> "middle ground" swoop tube model in the future between the CHG and the >> Hillibikes. Wait ... that's basically the Platypus. Yeah, that's further >> support that the CHG probably should be caliper brake. I concede. >> >> On Tuesday, 25 April 2023 at 10:09:07 UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote: >> >>> In my experience, sidepulls are great as long as you only ride in the >>> dry and don’t plan on any emergency stops. >>> >>> Eric >>> Not a caliper fan >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I have zero issues with the effectiveness of sidepulls. I used them for >>>> years and years. I just think that the cantiposts gives you a lot more >>>> options for brakes (cant's, v, or mini-v) AND allow for using larger tires. >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:35:31 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote: >>>> >>>>> I remember back in the days before V-brakes and disc brakes when >>>>> numerous cyclo-tourists and Tour de France racers were going over cliffs >>>>> on >>>>> mountain descents because sidepulls and centerpulls don't work - *N* >>>>> *OT.* >>>>> But I do remember when you adjusted the toe-in of your brake pad by >>>>> twisting the caliper arms with a big crescent wrench in order to >>>>> eliminate >>>>> squeal. >>>>> >>>>> Laing >>>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 11:02:03 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm one of the few people who prefer sidepulls over cantis or >>>>>> v-brakes. I bought one of the last Cheviots, which had sidepull caliper >>>>>> brakes for my wife. I wouldn't have bought it if it had required >>>>>> V-brakes >>>>>> or Cantis as I have never been able to even replace brake pads on those >>>>>> without causing squeal. I actually think that Disc brakes are better >>>>>> than >>>>>> either of those for my riding style, though not as good as sidepulls. In >>>>>> any case, as Joe pointed out --- there are plenty of canti or v-brake >>>>>> bikes >>>>>> in the Rivendell lineup. No need to begrudge us sidepull fans 3 models. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 6:13:39 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I would have to agree with that thinking, the number of "use >>>>>>> v-brakes and sweptback bars" frames in the lineup is already extensive. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't think the Gallop benefits (from a marketing perspective) from >>>>>>> moving >>>>>>> closer to the Hillborne's mission. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 6:35:05 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah I think it had to do with the brake pull situation. Most road >>>>>>>> brakes won't match with v brakes which means if you have a road setup >>>>>>>> vs a >>>>>>>> mountain setup you would need cantis or mini-v's. Since there are >>>>>>>> decreasing options for cantis they were leaning on mini-v's but I >>>>>>>> guess >>>>>>>> they didn't care for the options there. So they went back on the >>>>>>>> "designed >>>>>>>> for sweptbacks" and decided to push the albastache bars and road >>>>>>>> brakes. >>>>>>>> This is all a theory based on some of the stuff I remember reading >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 9:07:55 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Correct; last word is that production will use long reach >>>>>>>>> sidepulls. Rarely has this entire group been so unanimously in >>>>>>>>> opposition >>>>>>>>> of a design decision from Riv as their choosing to do so. I am very >>>>>>>>> curious why they went with this decision - the argument that it's a >>>>>>>>> road-ish bike and therefore caliper brakes make sense is a flimsy >>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Especially considering how much tire the proto's fit! For fun, I >>>>>>>>> tried 650x55 (note: frame is 700c) and there was actually loads of >>>>>>>>> clearance on the frame - at least 8mm everywhere. Fork was tighter >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> still about 4mm clearance. Not much reason to do this vs. a Susie but >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> was a fun experiment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 5:43 PM Ryan Frahm <fra...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Are there not going to be canti mounts on the production? That’s >>>>>>>>>> a huge mistake (deal breaker) in my opinion. These look like such a >>>>>>>>>> nice >>>>>>>>>> and fun bikes! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-7 Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jason, it looks like such a solid and perfect commuter, I was >>>>>>>>>>> surprised when you let it go. Makes me want one, if only production >>>>>>>>>>> models >>>>>>>>>>> had canti posts... Its nice having a dedicated fendered and racked >>>>>>>>>>> bike. I >>>>>>>>>>> recently took off the front basket rack from my Joe to take it on >>>>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>> single track adventures. It was meant to be temporary but the >>>>>>>>>>> lightened >>>>>>>>>>> front end feels so good.. makes me want to have a different >>>>>>>>>>> dedicated >>>>>>>>>>> basket rack/fender city bike. Bikesnob had some similar musings >>>>>>>>>>> about his >>>>>>>>>>> rock combo and homer recently. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Dustin, Eric - indeed it's an Abus Bordo lock. A little >>>>>>>>>>>> heavier than a similar strength U-lock but it's handy having it on >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> frame where I can't forget it. I'm glad to hear the production >>>>>>>>>>>> run is >>>>>>>>>>>> secured it sounds like, I suppose the quietness is just because >>>>>>>>>>>> they're in >>>>>>>>>>>> the waiting phase now. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 24 April 2023 at 08:28:07 UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks great, Jason, and sounds like a good compliment to your >>>>>>>>>>>>> other bikes. It's cool to have your rigs squared and sorted for >>>>>>>>>>>>> particular >>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dustin — I'm not 100% but I think that might be a seat-tube >>>>>>>>>>>>> mounted folding lock that has a cage that mounts to the bottle >>>>>>>>>>>>> bosses. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 11:13:33 AM UTC-4 DJC wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I spoke with Vince three or four months ago about the Charlie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> project and he said they have it slotted for a 2024 production >>>>>>>>>>>>>> run. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this will happen, as I'm definitely interested in one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a daily >>>>>>>>>>>>>> commuter to complement my Clem H. The Clem is my workhorse and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hauler, whereas the Charlie would be my "fast" commuter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 23, 2023 at 11:11:56 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Been a little while since this thread was updated - in fact, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I sold mine around the time of the last post, but recently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bought it back >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the friend I'd sold it to as I realized my mistake! I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rebuilt it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similarly to before, but with a few differences such as a B17 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vs C17 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saddle, triple crankset with early 90's XT, silver fenders.. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bars plugged back in without so much as being unwrapped. It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly ideal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for my everyday needs and I was crazy to have sold it in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now the Bombadil can be retired from commuting duties and as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such, be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reconfigured to focus on adventure and bikepacking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't heard much out of Riv on this bike... wonder if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's still on the books?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: PXL_20230423_164506068.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 10:44:40 UTC-8 maxcr wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0mm extension (w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stem near >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the the minimum insertion line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arms so maybe that will work better for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_2063.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_2064.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_2076.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and will again as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail too which are like the SQLabs model, but these longer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (150mm) bar ends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are pretty cozy so I'll try them both. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pancake wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, changed stems: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the the minimum insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was about 4cm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shy of min insertion line. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> B17 saddle almost as far back as it will go on a S83 setback >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seatpost. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on my Cheviot. With the inner bar ends I get tons of added >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward reach to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pull on or lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want at least >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11cm of stem extension though. Any less than 10cm extension >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I’d worry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about knee strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they’re this low. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rapid rise rd with a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11t original). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Nexus doesn’t take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uphill in a low >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gear, it starts to skip. This is probably because I’ve got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it way past the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> max gear size and chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11-40t cassette). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I was less heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m hoping the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wider wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie is a rocket that pulls my weight off the seat to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pedal harder and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster like in the drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “sit up and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beg” mode - very tall to see well in traffic and nice for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standing up as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pedal uphills, but relaxed enough to putter around town for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could want. The long arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect and so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strong I can’t imagine ever wishing for disc brakes. What a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versatile bike! These should sell out every time, it’s the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best Riv I’ve >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been on (which includes: Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Homer, Gus, Suzie, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rosco Baby). Fast like Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better braking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other, swoopy goodness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr <max.fai...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from the Soma Portola to the Albatross? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down) on my Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't installed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my grips yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made it clear that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the angle wasn't working. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once I have the grips finalized. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_8661 (1).jpeg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel better than the cane creek ones I had on the noodles. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max, always tinkering in Boston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gardner <abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gravel and chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Slight noise on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pavement but only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tire smoothness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d love to try Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thes G-One >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allrounds are super (and cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herse tires). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sealant inside - never a flat but currently a slow leak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolved with the sealant since my lunch time ride. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What tires are those, Abe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pancake <abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <C4176DC6-AD02-4CDD-9BC2-C9C4BC167FFC.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <A3B1A5B2-3946-48CF-8155-370280D0D8AD.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down and raise the stem way high. This gives me a better >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grip towards the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> front of the curves of the bar, but I also put some bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends at the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward point, so they give a on the hoods type of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position as well. very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice for pulling on and leading down into the wind. Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to suggestions on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where to mount the shifters, they feel pretty good mounted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> center. I’m really enjoying the bar is mounted upside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down, it’s just a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more comfortable way to hold in the curves. I am on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nitto Technomic, 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cm extension stem, this leaves the hand grips about level >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the saddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the maximum insertion point. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V- brakes! Switching to the albatross bars, with cheap, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avid levers, and nice DRX brake arms improoves the braking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dramatically. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s really night and day compared to calipers or the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short arm v-brakes I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was using before. The stopping power both better modulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stronger. But the weird, unnecessarily, strong mechanical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advantage of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short arm (85mm) V- brakes is gone. Long arm v-brakes are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the only way to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m sure I’ll shift the cockpit around but so far super >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy with the change (from Soma Portola drop bars and TRP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RRL brake levers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with lite pro short arm v brakes). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c3d6668-0226-42a1-ac48-bcd0562c3414n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c3d6668-0226-42a1-ac48-bcd0562c3414n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1957388405.558885.1668550842559%40mail.yahoo.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1957388405.558885.1668550842559%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <C4176DC6-AD02-4CDD-9BC2-C9C4BC167FFC.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <A3B1A5B2-3946-48CF-8155-370280D0D8AD.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/FAD46064-3B72-4DD8-9AE6-58074CEB86D1%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/FAD46064-3B72-4DD8-9AE6-58074CEB86D1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/dd80b2db-3bbf-4fe4-875b-739941b04bfen%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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