I've been running an XTR rapid rise for 7+ years. I've found shifting to be much more intuitive. I generally pair with old parts (suntour barcons or silver shifters) and find less wander and accidental upshifts. The action feels substantially lighter and more accurate. In instances of missed shifts, broken cables, or any general mechanical issue it's easy to slop it to the highest possible gear to get to no interrupt a climb or rough terrain until things smooth out.
I have an alivio on my new clem build and found it to feel stiff and touchy. It works fine. I do find it much much more difficult to emergency slap shift into the bail out in rough/steep terrain. I often just end up having to get off at that point which kills the momentum and mood - it takes more planning on the trail - but you get used to whatever you use. I think the rapid rise is a great concept for "hillibike" sort of riding for these reasons. for road riding I don't particularly care. On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:35:15 AM UTC-7 Ginz wrote: > I have always done rapid rise and I find that it provides the most benefit > with indexed shifting. Beware of switching to rapid rise later in life. > You may be permanently confused about which way to shift, whether you use > STI, rapid fire, grip shift, or thumbies. With bar ends or any friction > setup, I find I can adapt easily between rapid and non-rapid rise for some > reason. > > > > On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote: > >> Ha! Yeah I'm a little excessive with my cable run, its been a minute >> since I set this up. Haven't gotten caught on anything yet! >> >> as far as the cassette goes, its a 9 spd shimano xt, 11-34/36 (can't >> remember exactly how big it is and I'm away from the bike, but in the 30's >> somewhere... I wanna say its the 36). I'm probably maxing out what the >> derailer is capable of in terms of size, I remember being a little >> concerned if it would work when I first put it on but its been smooth and >> no problems. >> >> Also on the front end I'm using the riv silver jis square taper wide/low >> (38/24) double crankset, which I've been very pleased with as well both >> aesthetically and functionally. >> >> -Stephen >> On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 7:47:00 AM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: >> >>> Stephen, that's the same XTR I had and parted with. What size is your >>> cassette? >>> >>> I agree, my first ride with the rapid rise was not a religious >>> experience. >>> >>> I think you can run a shorter piece of housing back there. I believe the >>> pivoting cable stop that feeds the cable pulley is designed to minimize the >>> run of cable and housing over the dropout. Eben Weiss/Bike Snob has the >>> same derailer as yours and posted something about running a longer, then >>> shorter piece of housing but now I can't find it. I did find a picture, >>> though. >>> >>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-23 at 7.35.14 AM.png] >>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:49:29 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote: >>> >>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-08-22 at 9.41.11 PM.png] >>>> I got this xtr at a swap meet last year and have been a big fan. Before >>>> I was running a deore like the one in russ' video. This is on my 2020 >>>> appaloosa with riversed silver thumbie shifters currently set up on >>>> bullmooses but I also swap out to loscos sometimes. I'm a big fan of it, >>>> though I'd agree with path less pedaled in saying its not mind blowing. I >>>> think it shifts great, I love the style of this era xtr. Haven't noticed >>>> any issues yet in terms of the spring not giving a snappy enough shift, >>>> but >>>> I definitely have had the beneficial ghost shift going uphill in the >>>> mountains since installing. >>>> >>>> Stephen >>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 9:20:47 PM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>>> JJ thanks for sharing your experiences across several RR mechs, that's >>>>> a lot of sampling. Sounds like you've found cage movement that works for >>>>> you! Dig the pic as well, thank you. I agree the red decal is a bit much. >>>>> Perhaps I'll scrape it off. >>>>> >>>>> Johnny, thanks for the link, that is an in-depth look at derailers I'd >>>>> kind of forgotten about. It's a long one so here are some tidbits about >>>>> cost and arrival, which I'm sure will change: >>>>> >>>>> *6. How much will it cost?* >>>>> >>>>> a. We don't know. Ideally we'll have a fancy first model, the SILVER >>>>> OM-1; and then cheaper other models, maybe OM-2, OM-3. Maybe $300 for a >>>>> fancy, and $30 for a plain? We have zero idea, but a derailer too >>>>> expensive >>>>> to buy is no fun and misses the point; and a super cheap derailer that >>>>> doesn't account for the cost of developing and making it is ... not gonna >>>>> happen. We'll just see. >>>>> >>>>> *11. When?* >>>>> >>>>> a. We're hoping the fancy by Spring 2023, and the plain by Fall 2023. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:00:40 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Riv is indeed making different tiers. I believe Grant said he wanted >>>>>> the top level to be around $300 but a plain jane low level version for >>>>>> something like $30. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/late-may-silver-is-a-bugger-and-the-last-good-looking-rear-derailer >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-4 J J wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been exclusively running low normal for a few years. Here's a >>>>>>> pic of the XT M770 on my Hunqapillar. When I first started using Rapid >>>>>>> Rise >>>>>>> I had a few muscle memory misfires (getting the opposite of what I >>>>>>> wanted >>>>>>> when I moved the shift lever). It lasted a couple of weeks, but then it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> like a flipping a switch in my brain and motor coordination. The logic >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> made so much sense, especially the consistency in left and right >>>>>>> shifting, >>>>>>> easier in one direction, harder in the other, on both sides. I run them >>>>>>> with friction shifters only. It's like second nature. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've tried XTR 970, 960, 950 series, LX and Deore models, and XT 760 >>>>>>> and 770. I sold a few of my still-too-large hoard of Rapid Rise on this >>>>>>> forum. Never tried the Nexave. All of them felt good, the only >>>>>>> differences >>>>>>> being the typical Shimano hierarchical group gradations in materials, >>>>>>> design, refinement, weight, etc. I don't see myself going back to high >>>>>>> normal shifting. I've gotten rid of (almost) all of my high normal >>>>>>> mechs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have never experienced the issues that Eric (Norris) mentioned >>>>>>> about low normal RDs not functioning well if they get mucked up. I >>>>>>> maintain >>>>>>> them no differently than how I ever treated high normal RDs. I've >>>>>>> recently >>>>>>> been riding in particularly wet and mucky conditions. It's as much of >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> issue as it is for high normal, which is to say, it has been a nonissue >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> my experience. There are probably numerous reasons Rapid Rise didn't >>>>>>> succeed in the market. But common declarations about their supposed >>>>>>> poor >>>>>>> functionality for xyz reasons do not align with my experiences at all >>>>>>> (and >>>>>>> I can only talk to my own experiences). They're not harder (or easier) >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> set up than high normal. They index no worse (or better) than high >>>>>>> normal. >>>>>>> They're no less (or more) robust than high normal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some purists thumb their noses at the overwrought design of the 770 >>>>>>> and 970, the black Deore, and others. Not silver enough, not polished >>>>>>> enough, too much paint, too flashy, etc. I think they look cool. And I >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> take the functionality of these with their ostensibly dowdier looks >>>>>>> *anytime* over not using Rapid Rise because they're insufficiently >>>>>>> attractive. I don't typically ogle my RDs while I'm riding :) The >>>>>>> silvery >>>>>>> Nexave looks great, though the red Megarange is a bit jarring to my >>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>> I'm sure it functions as wonderfully as all the other Rapid Rise models >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I'd jump on it if I found one for $17! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm stoked about Rivendell's upcoming version. Thank goodness Grant >>>>>>> and crew have enough gumption, principle, will, and sheer obstinacy to >>>>>>> carry through on the project. It's only speculation, but I suspect >>>>>>> Riv's >>>>>>> derailer will be pretty pricey. NOS XT and XTR Rapid rise are >>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>> rare, and $200 to $500 prices are not unusual on eBay, craigslist, and >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> independent bike shops that happen to have stock here and there. Used >>>>>>> ones >>>>>>> in great condition also fetch a lot of $$. I would not be surprised if >>>>>>> Riv's is within that range. Maybe Riv will produce different tiers? >>>>>>> Fingers >>>>>>> crossed that they will see the light of day asap. Whatever price it >>>>>>> ends up >>>>>>> being, I'll try to be the first in line for one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: xt rapid rise.jpeg] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 4:09:31 PM UTC-4 [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Path Less Pedaled just did an entire video episode on Rapid >>>>>>>> Rise/Low Normal derailleurs that’s definitely worth watching. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One point that came up in the comments from viewers is that >>>>>>>> shifting to lower gears is done entirely through the strength of the >>>>>>>> spring >>>>>>>> in the derailleur. Move the shifter to release more cable, and the >>>>>>>> *spring* >>>>>>>> pushes the chain onto a larger cog. In practice, according to people >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> had used RR/LN extensively, was that normal stuff that happens to >>>>>>>> derailleurs (they get dirty or muddy, or need lubrication) makes that >>>>>>>> spring’s job harder, with the result that it doesn’t work as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Shifting to a larger cog also benefits from a slight decrease in >>>>>>>> pedaling pressure while shifting (again, to make the spring’s job >>>>>>>> easier). >>>>>>>> That’s not always possible when you’re grinding up a steep incline and >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to grab a lower gear. This may be part of the reason why RR/LN was >>>>>>>> phased >>>>>>>> out … along with the fact that it was “different” in an industry that >>>>>>>> mostly prizes conformity. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Full disclosure: I’ve never used a RR/LN setup, although I do ride >>>>>>>> almost exclusively with friction-shifting downtube levers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --Eric Norris >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy >>>>>>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2022, at 12:46 PM, Eric Marth <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you run a Rapid Rise derailer? Do you like it? Have you had one >>>>>>>> before and just didn't get it? What's the *deal?* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With all the commotion over Rivendell's plan to build their own >>>>>>>> production low-normal derailer I figured I'd try one out for myself. >>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>> first one I picked up was an XTR RD-M951 which I suspected had a bent >>>>>>>> pulley cage, some of you may remember I posted about this mech a few >>>>>>>> weeks >>>>>>>> ago. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found this Nexave on eBay for $17 so figured I'd give it a shot. >>>>>>>> This model, to my mind, is *the* classic rapid rise derailer. >>>>>>>> Silver, shiny, long cage, external guide pulley, pivoting cable guide >>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>> short bit of housing over the rear dropout. Grant mentioned that this >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> his favorite model, cosmetically. I like it, too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So far I haven't put many miles on it but no complaints. I like >>>>>>>> getting into the easier gears with a light touch. I'm running the >>>>>>>> derailer >>>>>>>> on my Appaloosa with a Silver 38/24 crank and a 9-speed 11-36 >>>>>>>> cassette. >>>>>>>> It's wired up to the original Suntour Power Thumb shifters which are >>>>>>>> mounted in the reversed, under-hand style also known as the Riv-versed >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> Rivendell brifter style. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the reverse-mounted shifters I did like pushing the lever away >>>>>>>> from me to get an easier gear with a high-normal derailer installed. >>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>> made sense. Pulling the lever to me for an easier gear is taking a bit >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> getting used to but the action required is so light that it's not a >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> so far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I haven't yet been in a situation where I'm climbing >>>>>>>> and experience a mis-shift under torque resulting in the derailer >>>>>>>> bumping >>>>>>>> me to an easier gear. I'm looking forward to it, really. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One thing I can't get my head wrapped around is why Grant and >>>>>>>> Rivendell want to make this happen and go through so much trouble and >>>>>>>> expense. It is quite a complicated undertaking. It seems if you're >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> low-normal derailers they're out there if you look hard enough and >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> some patience. Perhaps it's just what they do and what they're about. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> want something to exist that has gone out of production, they make it >>>>>>>> so, >>>>>>>> and that is the purest expression of their ethos and what they love >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> bikes and components. "Isn't this great? People should be able to find >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> use these!" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <IMG_1983.JPG> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/892c029a-4efd-4b00-9dc7-840361116a39n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/892c029a-4efd-4b00-9dc7-840361116a39n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> <IMG_1983.JPG> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9c924f8e-3bd1-4791-8344-0eaad5faee34n%40googlegroups.com.
