Bill - sounds like the bottom line is that we basically agree with each other, though coming at it from slightly different directions. Best of luck on your new canti-roa build and be sure to let us all know how things worked out in the end,
George On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: > George Schick said "I'm not sure I quite agree with the "skitishness" of a > higher BB" > > I didn't use the term "skitishness". I said "nervous" and "agile", which > I think is equivalent to what you are calling "lively" and "responsive". > We're talking about the same things. I notice the differences, and I like > the differences, and I want both bikes in my stable. Neither is better. > On some rides I will pick my cross bike, and on other rides I will pick my > road bike. The difference between the two is why a road bike and a cross > bike are different bikes, to me. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:42:30 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: > >> Bill - whoa! Now I can see where you're coming from on this build. Lots >> of different things going on here. And I do understand about the >> difference between BB heights on a typical cross bike and something like >> the Roadeo (or the 8cm BB drop on my Ram for that matter). However, I'm >> not sure I quite agree with the "skitishness" of a higher BB. To the >> point, I have the 54cm Ram and I also have an updated/rebuilt '71/'72 Fuji >> Finest. When I carefully place the two side by side I see that almost >> everything about the two bike frames is nearly equal *except* the BB >> height. The Fuji has more like a 5cm BB drop. Now, whenever I ride one of >> those two bikes, I always find the Fuji to be much more lively and >> responsive than the Ram - not that I think either is better or worse than >> the other. So... must just be a difference in riding styles or something. >> >> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 2:19:23 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >>> George >>> >>> OK, I understand your point, but I disagree with it. The major >>> difference I see between a road bike and a cyclocross bike is BB height >>> (aka drop). A cross bike with little drop has a higher BB, is more >>> "nervous" aka "agile". A road bike with more drop is more "planted" and >>> "stable". I own a cyclocross race bike, a Rivendell Legolas, and had my >>> normal Roadeo. Both bikes are great road bikes, and I rode both of them on >>> brevets in 2021. Since my Roadeo is recently gone, I rode my Legolas on >>> two 50 milers this past weekend. The major difference is how much more >>> nervous the Legolas feels at speed on the road. I attribute all of that to >>> the difference to the BB height, and the Legolas has a lower BB height than >>> a lot of cyclocross bikes. >>> >>> In addition to the geo difference, I approach my fit differently between >>> a cyclocross race bike and a road bike. I run a 57cm Legolas and a 59cm >>> Roadeo. >>> >>> In addition to the above, Grant did a special 'knee' in BB height on the >>> 59 (his size). It's a few mm even lower. >>> >>> In addition to all the above, my build approach to a "road bike" and a >>> "cyclocross race bike" is pretty different. >>> >>> I concede that any normal person can build an adequate "cantilever road >>> bike" out of a cyclocross racing frameset. >>> >>> Bill Lindsay >>> El Cerrito, CA >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 11:34:56 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >>> >>>> Bill - none of the above really. I just see the geometry of the Roadeo >>>> as those of a typical "road" bike and, since those are the dimensions that >>>> cross bikes also have, adding canti's to it makes it more or less seem >>>> like >>>> a cross bike. No big deal about it at all, just an observation. Many >>>> years ago I made an inquiry to Waterford about having them build a bike >>>> that would basically be a modification of one of their standard road >>>> series >>>> frames, but with canti's. I made the mistake by saying that I wanted it >>>> built that way so I could easily add and remove fenders between Winter and >>>> Summer riding seasons. Apparently noses in Waterford, WI, flew up at the >>>> suggestion because I never go a reply one way or another. Had such a >>>> frame >>>> been built, though, it would've been about the same as what you've ordered >>>> from Riv. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 1:22:54 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>> >>>>> George Schick said it "sounds a lot like a cross bike" >>>>> >>>>> Um...OK? What is the purpose of your comment? Are you recommending >>>>> that I put knobbies on my forthcoming Canti-Roadeo and race cross on it? >>>>> Are you recommending that I cancel my order and buy an off the shelf >>>>> cyclocross bike instead? Are you opining that a road bike with >>>>> cantilever >>>>> brakes ceases to be a road bike? Are you just applying your personal >>>>> label >>>>> to my forthcoming bike? >>>>> >>>>> I have responses to all of those. What are we discussing? >>>>> >>>>> Bill Lindsay >>>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 10:52:34 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Bill - the canti-roadeo you envision sounds a lot like a cross bike. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:20:20 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There are a number of threads on which I've mentioned a desire to >>>>>>> own a Nobilette-built Roadeo with cantilever posts. It came up in a >>>>>>> thread >>>>>>> about the Legolas, it came up in a thread about brevets on Rivs. I've >>>>>>> made >>>>>>> no secret that I wanted a Canti-Roa. There have been Canti-Roms, >>>>>>> Canti-Rams, even Canti-Homers. I'm on record saying that my ideal Riv >>>>>>> road >>>>>>> bike would be a Nobilette build, constructed of Roadeo/Legolas tubing, >>>>>>> Roadeo Geometry, but the clearances of my Canti-Hillborne. Putting my >>>>>>> money where my mouth is, I'd stated a few times that if any of you >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> buy my existing Roadeo, that I'd put all your dollars right back to Riv >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> order a Canti-Roa. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, it finally happened. Lister Corwin needed my 59 Roadeo frame >>>>>>> and fork, and today I sent all his dollars plus several of my own back >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Rivendell to order a Canti-Roadeo. Mark Abele and I are ironing out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> details. I've got no idea yet how long Nobilette's queue is at the >>>>>>> moment, >>>>>>> but I'm very excited. I have no clue whatsoever on color yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bill Lindsay >>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c38a274f-f62d-450f-a1ac-0eaa1eff5591n%40googlegroups.com.
