As Ryan stated there are in fact a few RS-made Rivs out there. Very few. Joe Bernard
On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:22:14 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote: > Sachs designed the lugs used on the earliest models. He didn’t make them > or any frames. Waterford was the earliest vendor and as others have noted, > a few other small builders have helped over the years, Nobilette most > recently. Toyo did several frame models for a period of about 5 years, and > Panasonic had one too. Panasonic and Urema did painting in Japan. Maxway > in Taiwan has been a major supplier of late. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 28, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always had > a long waiting list? > > > I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used theirs. > > On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan <ryte...@mts.net> wrote: > >> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus) >> and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from Waterford >> and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 and >> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road delivered >> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one >> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom >> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and Nobilette >> started. 2005 or so? >> >> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote: >> >>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and >>> all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, >>> Keith, and Joel! I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this >>> thing. >>> >>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, >>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking >>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back >>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders >>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect. It's worthwhile adding >>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well. >>> >>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice >>> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the >>> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D >>> >>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>> >>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line >>>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early >>>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's >>>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a >>>> custom >>>> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time. >>>> >>>> Joe Bernard >>>> >>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> >>>>> Nice work, Jason! >>>>> >>>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the >>>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting >>>>> a >>>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. >>>>> >>>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've >>>>> only ever seen two of them. >>>>> >>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom >>>>>> Allingham's Flickr): Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, >>>>>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many >>>>>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right? And am I >>>>>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when >>>>>> the >>>>>> MIT batch rolled in? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a >>>>>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways >>>>>>> to go >>>>>>> before I'm any sort of expert). Of course, my "knowledge" is limited >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most >>>>>>> part, >>>>>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as >>>>>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah. So then on the '95 >>>>>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain >>>>>>> (Expedition? >>>>>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry? From memory the >>>>>>> Road >>>>>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I >>>>>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I >>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard. I >>>>>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either >>>>>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and >>>>>>> Atlantis being obvious ones). This might turn into a full wiki, not >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess! I have webhosting >>>>>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good effort. I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once. My >>>>>>>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or >>>>>>>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa. I know >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying >>>>>>>> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains >>>>>>>> were - >>>>>>>> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they >>>>>>>> DID >>>>>>>> have an actual model name and head badge. I don't think I'd consider >>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the >>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars >>>>>>>> like the >>>>>>>> bosco. Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nice Jason, and needed. The Road was followed quickly by the Road >>>>>>>>> Standard, I think by '96. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv >>>>>>>>>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via >>>>>>>>>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was >>>>>>>>>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of >>>>>>>>>> rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of >>>>>>>>>> snapshots of these sites today). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some >>>>>>>>>> of you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can >>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>> out omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of >>>>>>>>>> permutations of >>>>>>>>>> some of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> each model was made (including many which went through a few shops) >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> addition to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final >>>>>>>>>> form >>>>>>>>>> this takes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect! >>>>>>>>>> Note: I left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes >>>>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>>>> relevant; I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and >>>>>>>>>> Road >>>>>>>>>> 55.5 are ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to >>>>>>>>>> have snuck >>>>>>>>>> past my research so far. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4957f13b-b0a0-4941-a22f-0818be8d63ddn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4957f13b-b0a0-4941-a22f-0818be8d63ddn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Sfo4Wj7PYss/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5DYgoDG05oRB8og9T0OzDQd5FY7nmONP1fmXgU_2K1v%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5DYgoDG05oRB8og9T0OzDQd5FY7nmONP1fmXgU_2K1v%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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