Garth, you are so smart you are making my head spin and it’s early here. So many numbers… You are right that my reach is different on each bike - the Clem is SO long that I have an 8 cm stem and the Brooks is pushed all the way back and the fit couldn’t be better. BUT, The Platy is so different. I know you’re right about a longer reach being better, but I can’t possibly give up those Billie Bars, oh, they are fabulous. I think this configuration will work, but it just isn’t very plug and play, is it?
Tim, THANK YOU for saving me the frustration of hauling that bike in and paying for the seat post to be unnecessarily cut. You must have this same seat post? Is yours pushed all the way down into the frame as well? I think I can ride the bike with the seat post as is, but extremes always irk me. I don’t like being maxed out or…min’d out (I know that’s not a word). But I will do something I’ve never actually done and that is measure the saddle height on both bikes. I should probably know that number. Now, again, 2 questions: 1. Is there any problem with having that seat post pushed down so low? As in, am I putting pressure on the frame? 2. What is that darn screw for?! I’m off today so I’ll try again with this seat post. Leah > On Nov 22, 2021, at 5:19 AM, Garth <[email protected]> wrote: > > Leah I looked at this nifty stem comparison thing here . > http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php > > Reading your post again and comparing the photos of your Clem to your Platy, > I can see the reach isn't the same. > > So, comparing the -17 rise 280x90 stem you have to using the Nitto mtc-04 > long 225 quill adapter and a Nitto UI-86 26.0 bar(requires a shim) Threadless > +17 rise 120mm stem, you'll be at the same height and gain 31mm of reach. > With a 110 extension you gain 21mm of reach. Both of these I found at Ben's > Cycles in Wisconsin. Isn't geometry fun ?! > > https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-mtc-04-long-quill-stem-to-threadless-adapter---28-622-2mm-stem_column_adapters_nitto__870-995-30_870-995-30/p > https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-ui-86-threadless-stem-stem_nitto_ui-86_870/p?skuId=673431 > > I can't say if what you're experiencing is really a lack of setback or reach > or a little of both as while the S83 has only 2-3mm less setback than the > stock post. Your white saddle also doesn't offer as much room back as it's a > shorter saddle length overall than the Brooks which can of itself give you > the sensation of not going back far enough because it's short overall length > won't allow it. I know you like the saddle but maybe it's just not a good fit > for that particular bike and/or the stem isn't quite right either. Just > throwing it out there, so to speak ! > > About the seatpost, there's this SR post from the 80's, they used to come > stock on some mtb's even, and just your size. The only thing is you in > lowering them to the flutes you ought to make sure there is enough grease in > there so when you wipe it off at the top of the lug there's no gap for water > into the seat tube ! I know ... I know ....... mama told me there'd be dayze > like these ! > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/255030042508?hash=item3b60f99f8c:g:5cEAAOSwmt9g1qWX > > > Nick the seatpost for these new fangled frames require the wacky 26.8, which > Nitto doesn't make the S84 in. Even the guy at Nitto in the Blue Lug tour > video wishes Riv wouldn't use it. > >> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 1:36:13 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >> Well! Do you know how annoying it is to put that much detective work into a >> bike part and totally not think of the right answer? Pretty annoying! >> >> Good call on the knowing stuff, Tim 👊 >> >>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 10:23:32 PM UTC-8 Tim Baldwin wrote: >>> That's as far down as the seatpost will go. The portion above and just >>> below the little bolt is 27.2 then tapers to 26.8, probably making it >>> easier to produce different seatpost sizes. >>> >>> I found this out the hard way. Thought it was hitting a butted section so I >>> chopped it only to find it did not go down any lower. Then I got out the >>> calipers. Whoops. >>> >>>> On Monday, November 22, 2021 at 12:01:37 AM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> One more theory: The saddle is way back now so the post is lower relative >>>> to where you had the old one set. According to this theory both posts >>>> would stop at the butted section if you tried to slam them. Or I'm >>>> overthinking this! 🤪 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 9:38:33 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>> First, it's so the way of things that it was perfect on the first ride >>>>> then all went to heck on the second. Oy! >>>>> >>>>> But to the matters at hand. My first assumption was the post is really >>>>> long and it's clanging into the lip of the toptube as it crosses into the >>>>> seattube. But this post is 250mm, same as the one you pulled. Unless you >>>>> somehow got a longer one? My next guess is it's a smidge bigger in >>>>> diameter than the last one and it's stopping at a butted portion of the >>>>> seattube where it's thicker in there. In either case it wouldn't hurt >>>>> anything, but I'd pull the post for an inspection anyway. Maybe there's a >>>>> burr on the bottom that needs to be sanded down. >>>>> >>>>> That little bolt is weird. The Riv page says it's an aluminum head/clamp >>>>> in a steel post, maybe the head/clamp is removable. >>>>> >>>>> Joe "has more questions than answers" Bernard >>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 8:09:28 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding >>>>>> Ding! wrote: >>>>>> Today was interesting. I found that the saddle was slipping around in >>>>>> the clamp while on my ride. The setback had changed to 40! I figure this >>>>>> occurred because I had the saddle slid all the way back on the rails; I >>>>>> repositioned it further forward and everything seems ok now. But, this >>>>>> messed up my measurements and I spent the rest of the ride >>>>>> second-guessing where I had set the setback number (all over between >>>>>> 39-45). There’s no telling if I love or hate the current adjustment! >>>>>> I’ve sworn to leave it alone for a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> BUT…I have two questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. I have the post slammed into the frame. I can’t get it any lower >>>>>> because it’s making contact with something in there. I can ride in the >>>>>> way it is, but what is the post hitting in there? Am I wrecking stuff? >>>>>> Should I have the post cut at a bike shop? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. What is this tiny screw for? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! I owe you all so much. >>>>>> Leah >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 21, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Roberta <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Garth, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You pegged it for me—a 12 or 13 cm stem would have worked if they made >>>>>>> it, or sticking with a less pulled back bar like the Albatross. Love >>>>>>> the Billies more to hold all my handlebars “stuff.” I wanted to start >>>>>>> with what I had purchased for the bike before starting to buy other >>>>>>> fixes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Btw, because of my neck issues, all my stems are near max level. >>>>>>> Viola—no more neck pain! I’m so happy I don’t cry anymore when >>>>>>> riding. I’m glad I found Rivendell. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I look forward to seeing your custom. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roberta >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 8:29:57 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote: >>>>>>>> Does anyone even know what the seat tube angle is on the Platypus ? >>>>>>>> Likely not as the frame geometry was never included in the table. It's >>>>>>>> either 72 or 71.5. All 'n all in my opinion Grant/Will could do a >>>>>>>> better job of educating buyers on fitting their bikes rather than >>>>>>>> saying "just trust us". That rather irks me actually as it's the >>>>>>>> same-ol-same-ol bike shop mentality that's been around since I can >>>>>>>> remember. "We know better than the customer." No, they don't, as if >>>>>>>> they did they'd take the time to share in the process of fitting the >>>>>>>> bike to the customers sensibilities, not the bike shops as their take >>>>>>>> is inherently of their own self interests. Buying a bike virtually >>>>>>>> makes it challenging for everyone of course. I take it upon myself to >>>>>>>> check a frame before I buy it to see what all specs are, if the seat >>>>>>>> angle is 72 or less, if it has enough f-c, stack and reach and all >>>>>>>> that jazz. Learn what it all means and how that will translate to >>>>>>>> actually fitting into the frame. Besides the Bombadil, the only other >>>>>>>> frame I considered suitable from them was a Susie, which I bought but >>>>>>>> as of yet I don't feel any enthusiasm to build. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With a Platypus and a swept back bar I suspect Leah and Roberta could >>>>>>>> use a longer stem, assuming the saddle is now in the "sweet spot" of >>>>>>>> what feels right and what feels right is intuitive, a centering >>>>>>>> balance of being "in the bike" and being able to pedal efficiently. No >>>>>>>> one can tell you what that point is .... it's like an ah-hah ! moment >>>>>>>> when you understand something within. It's the Intelligence that is >>>>>>>> "you", it's irrevocable. Once you feel that sweet spot then the reach >>>>>>>> to the bar is likewise intuitive. Feeling cramped in a frame really is >>>>>>>> a joy sucker isn't it ? ! It's like wearing pants or a jacket that >>>>>>>> are too tight in some way that you feel restricted, and nobody likes >>>>>>>> that feeling. I like stretched out relax-forward too, I'm not riding a >>>>>>>> galloping horse straight upright with the reigns on my thighs, you >>>>>>>> know ? That's why I ride a bike, whose wheels are fixed and not >>>>>>>> galloping, unlike a horse ! Speaking of which I passed by a pair on >>>>>>>> the road yesterday, a "country" road of course. Around here you'll see >>>>>>>> that, and yes, the horses had riders. I know what you were thinking , >>>>>>>> riderless horses running wild on the road ! They kept up with me for >>>>>>>> awhile, I could hear their clickety-click behind me and I glanced back >>>>>>>> and saw these two gaints galloping in tow, oh how majestic ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> About the stems, I get the attachment to the Nitto negative rise road >>>>>>>> stems but if you used a threadless adapter and a threadless stem that >>>>>>>> has a positive rise, or even the Nitto Hi-Riser quill, you don't need >>>>>>>> nearly as long of a quill. Frankly though, if you're having to use >>>>>>>> such a tall stem in the first place the stack height of the frame is >>>>>>>> too low to start with. Consider a custom frame, if not from Riv then >>>>>>>> from someone else. I'm having a road frame built here in Ohio and he, >>>>>>>> Jack can build all sorts of frames including mixtes. With 27.2 posts >>>>>>>> too ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In regards to seatposts, in 26.8 setback posts are few to start with >>>>>>>> so yeah finding one with more than 23-25mm of setback seems limited to >>>>>>>> the IRD. Thomson's seatposts I call "lame-back" because it's a measly >>>>>>>> 15mm of setback. Does that even count ? If you're gonna set it back >>>>>>>> you may well make in back enough to notice. They had a prototype 25mm >>>>>>>> setback post a couple years ago that never made it to market. Again >>>>>>>> though, with these short railed leather saddles the seat tube angles >>>>>>>> should be more like 71 degrees which usually puts them in the custom >>>>>>>> frame category as few offer that as stock. Jones does but that's not >>>>>>>> the kind of bike we're speaking of here ! With a 71 sta though that >>>>>>>> opens the door to less/zero setback posts and/or placing a saddle in >>>>>>>> the middle of the rails rather than jammed to the front of the rails. >>>>>>>> I ride luxurious "Royalgel" Selle Royal Lookin saddles that have >>>>>>>> thankfully long rails and those are just long enough I can use them >>>>>>>> with a 72 degree sta and a Salsa Shaft seatpost on the Bombadil. I'm >>>>>>>> someone who finds leather saddles simply tortuous on the ishiums, >>>>>>>> those inner parts of sitting bones. Ouch just thinking about it ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 1:48:03 AM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote: >>>>>>>>> Leah et al; >>>>>>>>> You pointed out exactly why the first thing I look at with bike fit >>>>>>>>> is if I can achieve the desired setback for my preferred position. >>>>>>>>> Everyone will differ and everyone will have their ideal range but >>>>>>>>> once you know your comfort zone you can get a better idea where your >>>>>>>>> frame will fit regarding your preferred riding position. >>>>>>>>> For myself, I tend to avoid frames with seat tubes of 74 degrees and >>>>>>>>> steeper because I can’t slide a Brooks saddle far enough back to >>>>>>>>> achieve a comfortable riding position. Someone riding an identical >>>>>>>>> sized bike might be fine due to either saddle choice, femur length, >>>>>>>>> bar height or riding position. >>>>>>>>> Bicycle manufacturers aim for the meaty part of the curve but it’s up >>>>>>>>> to us to dial in our preferred fit. >>>>>>>>> Kudos to you for recognizing this and hopefully others will optimize >>>>>>>>> their fit for their riding style. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ray >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 20, 2021 at 7:50:50 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote: >>>>>>>>>> —-The only hangup with the Thompson being, you can only get it into >>>>>>>>>> the frame up to the bend in the post >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 20, 2021, at 18:13, Patrick Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are absolutely right to change saddle setback for comfort and >>>>>>>>>>> balance (and torque too) instead of the stem length; saddle >>>>>>>>>>> position, including setback, is the anchor of bike fit, all else is >>>>>>>>>>> adjusted in reference to the saddle. I found this out the very hard >>>>>>>>>>> way (see below). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that the Wayback looks bad, but perhaps the Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> Layback in silver might look slightly more elegant? I used a >>>>>>>>>>> Thompson long ago to get a Brooks Flyer far back enough on a 73* >>>>>>>>>>> seat tube on a mountain bike and it worked well despite the rails >>>>>>>>>>> way-too-short for a 73* seat tube. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------- *** ------------- >>>>>>>>>>> Years ago when I still believed in "KOPS" -- "knee over pedal >>>>>>>>>>> spindle" -- and liking then as I do now a lot of leg extension, I >>>>>>>>>>> ended up with a Ritchey mountain bike seatpost on a road bike with >>>>>>>>>>> saddle all the way forward on the rails (it would slip forward >>>>>>>>>>> under my weight until I slathered the cradle in blue Loctite), and >>>>>>>>>>> this had me installing a 140 mm (later 135 mm) Cinelli stem, with >>>>>>>>>>> bar 6" below saddle. I was a young 39-40 something, so quite >>>>>>>>>>> flexible. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The frame was actually quite nice -- upper end British Falcon, tout >>>>>>>>>>> 531C -- with longish stays and very, very short front-center. You >>>>>>>>>>> can imagine what the bike felt like on fast downhill sweepers, >>>>>>>>>>> especially with gusty sidewinds. My weight was biased so for >>>>>>>>>>> forward that I'd skip the rear wheel when standing to climb. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alas, I sold the bike before I learned (from Grant, in fact) how to >>>>>>>>>>> properly set up a bike: "Get your bar up and back and you saddle >>>>>>>>>>> back and down." I've not looked back. Thanks, Grant. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That Falcon would probably have felt very comfortable with a >>>>>>>>>>> wayback saddle to give torque over the top-dead-center of the pedal >>>>>>>>>>> stroke and enable the core muscles to support the torso, reducing >>>>>>>>>>> weight on shoulders, arms, and hands. With the rearward weight and >>>>>>>>>>> the short front end, I'll bet that Falcon would not only have >>>>>>>>>>> pedaled very nicely, but handled very nicely too, perhaps with >>>>>>>>>>> something of Grant's signature "stable yet quick in turn-in" feel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2021 at 2:03 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <4F9D0A57-31F2-46D8-9FC5-2B4CD19A8377.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>>>> <01A4B13F-B79C-4AD6-87AA-865A60510C77.jpeg> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> .... . I had not been getting along with my stock seat post (the >>>>>>>>>>>> nose of the saddle would tip up) and my Brooks (it was rubbing me >>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong way - ha).... a Nitto S83 post, which didn’t offer >>>>>>>>>>>> enough setback. I wanted to scoot back, but was at the end of the >>>>>>>>>>>> Rivet. I was holding my bars forward of the grips to compensate. I >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to be more stretched out; I felt cramped. ... >>>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell sells an IRD Wayback seat post. I’m sure I’m committing >>>>>>>>>>>> some ergonomic sin by adjusting seat post and not stem, but it >>>>>>>>>>>> WORKED. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtoY5J0_VHHcLWwLv-xE5tGiQ6GfrkrLNzbo1VwDNGXsA%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/DDqsLDEcIi4/unsubscribe. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/24ee6e32-fa56-4f2d-b566-b771df4a509an%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/DDqsLDEcIi4/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/35720bc2-4c1f-4183-b9b2-0b66dfac22b2n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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