That big cat is why I think mirrors are necessary. Especially in my area where half the cars that pass me are plug-in hybrids or Teslas, I can't rely on my (aging) hearing to know what's coming. It also doesn't tell me if the idiot is texting, a thing I can see through a windshield. So no "both sides are valid" here, I don't think the shoulder check and hearing is enough on the road.
On Saturday, August 29, 2020 at 12:13:07 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote: > Good point about the car/bike comparison which fits my experience. > > Bill's experience and response is much like mine, and this raises a > question: If you start riding in urban traffic early -- I started in > then-somnolent but still urban Bangalore age 11 when my parents let me ride > to school through city streets, then rode more extensively in far, far > denser urban traffic in New Delhi the next year, without my parent's > knowledge, as far as I know -- I wonder if you don't simply acquire more > thoroughly certain lifelong listening and awareness habits -- the knack of > being aware of what is around you and of knowing where exactly you fit in > to the traffic mix, and what you can and can't safely do in that role or > position. > > I also have not quarrel with those who insist on mirrors. Me, as I said, I > could never trust them. > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020 at 11:24 AM Bill Schairer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> [image: D2685882-DD57-483A-B3E7-FA767D92B55A.jpeg] >> >> I won't argue against a mirror but don't find the comparison to driving a >> car without a mirror to be valid. If one has ever driven a convertible >> with the top down without distracting music playing I think one will >> recognize what a difference hearing traffic around you makes in situational >> awareness. I haven't used a mirror in over 50 years of riding in traffic. >> When I was in junior high I rode to and from school on my 3 speed with a >> mirror. It served me well when one of my friendly school mates hurled an >> apple at me from a passing bus. The apple struck and shattered my mirror >> much to the delight of those on the bus. My parents did not replace the >> mirror nor did I ever ask them to and I haven't used one since. >> >> In my experience as a cyclist and a motorist, there is absolutely nothing >> that comes close to getting the attention of a motorist, and almost always >> a good reaction, than a quick head check. The motorist knows you want to >> do something, gets nervous and, in my experience, almost always will back >> off. Worst case, they want to get by you faster and you do hear that. My >> ears are always on, the first head check is quick, more a signal of intent >> that also gets my left ear out of the wind. The second head check is a bit >> longer where I go for a visual. The third lets me know whether or not the >> motorist is actually hanging back for me. I'm not trying to argue one way >> or the other but just presenting the other side and suggesting that the >> choice not to use a mirror is not necessarily an irresponsible choice so >> long as one's hearing is intact. For the most part, I choose not to ride >> roads where this strategy doesn't feel comfortable to me but it is close to >> impossible for me to go for a ride from home without being in traffic and I >> often prefer heavy traffic. >> >> I have toured with friends who use mirrors and appreciate the "car back" >> calls from time to time but my experience has been that I am often aware of >> the car back before the mirrored cyclist and maybe the one first one making >> the call. One of my friends is very hard of hearing, uses a mirror and it >> is frightening to me how often he is completely unaware. >> >> That being said, one of my touring partners may have been saved from a >> very unpleasant encounter when he noticed in his mirror something trailing >> him. Curious as to what it was he stopped and turned around to see this >> guy. He was alone at the time. Kinda hard to know what might have >> happened had he not turned and faced him down. The cat took off when >> another rider then came up from behind to sandwich him. This is the most >> compelling argument for a mirror I've encountered. >> >> Bill S >> >> On Saturday, August 29, 2020 at 10:05:47 AM UTC-7 Jim Kramka wrote: >> >>> I use a mirror attached to my glasses and would never go back to riding >>> without. I’ve tried two different bar mounted mirrors and found them >>> significantly less safe and useful. I can look in my mirror without moving >>> my head. I can scan lanes behind and beside me with just slight movement, >>> something possible with bar-mounted mirrors only with large movements. And >>> my mirror goes with me regardless which bike I ride. >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 11:21 AM Matthew Williams < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm thinking about getting a small, bar-mounted rearview mirror. For >>>> the past forty-five years I've ridden without one and I'm in the habit of >>>> constantly checking my surroundings, but after riding in traffic for >>>> several months I'm thinking a mirror might be a good idea. >>>> >>>> Do you use a mirror, or is it unnecessary? Does it help, or is it just >>>> a gadget that isn't a substitute for turning your head? What are your >>>> recommendations for rearview mirrors? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/28c0397a-4842-4112-afcb-4a653549baben%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/28c0397a-4842-4112-afcb-4a653549baben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/43e29e4d-b24a-4aed-a0b2-5d8b07c2dd59n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/43e29e4d-b24a-4aed-a0b2-5d8b07c2dd59n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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