Thank you Bill. I'm gradually absorbing tubular lore and data and, though my Libertas project is far enough in the future that it's not visible to the naked eye, I've been tempted to push "buy" for several recent list posts (boblist, I think) for old tubular wheelsets. But another person on this list spoke of Rich building wheels with modern tubular rims; will wait until project is closer to consummation before I buy.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 7:51 PM Bill Schairer <commut...@gmail.com> wrote: > Patrick, lots of questions, may I answer below? > > On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 6:07:39 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> Bill L, that's a nice Roadeo, even nicer with the new wheels. Bill S, >> thanks for these apercus, and I welcome your enthusiasm; *I* think >> *exalte's* are *nice* people! >> >> It won't be this year, since the very long-maturing 3-speed road bike >> project is now under way and my money and time will be spent sorting that >> one out, but I do very much want to resurrect my old Libertas (60 X 56 c-c, >> exactly my size in level top tubes, and 5.9 lb f + f with steel campy >> headset!), and at just-turned-65, I believe I must commit to riding >> top-line tubulars before I die. It's good to hear that they ride so well, >> and I am looking forward -- into the distance -- to eventually riding them. >> >> Bill S: I was very pleased to hear that a few goatheads didn't result in >> leaks even without sealant. I've had this happen with very stout tires, Big >> Apples, but not with light tires; so does one say that the thorns didn't >> penetrate the latex tubes, or that the thorns did penetrate but the latex >> kept close around them and blocked leakage? >> > > I assume that the thorns did not penetrate the latex tubes. My assumption > is the latex is far more flexible than the butly and only deformed rather > than punctured. In each case I expected the tire to deflate after pulling > the goathead out but that never happened. Since you are in goathead > country, I should probably add that all three were picked up in my front > tire and I became aware of them within only a few rotations, apparently > before they could do their real damage. > >> >> Another question: One PITA of riding tubes filled with sealant is getting >> a puncture that the sealant doesn't seal. You are left with a casing full >> of spludge, which of course splatters all over you and the nearby landscape >> when you remove the tube. (I carry a rag precisely to wipe up such >> messes.)* >> > The reason I ultimately decided to do my sealant injections at home. > Initially, I rode with one spare and sealant but switched to two spares and > no sealant. Although, when I toured I carried 4 spares and sealant but > never needed any of it. I was paranoid. > >> >> Thus, when you have a tire where the tube is sewn up inside the casing, >> and you get a puncture that the sealant doesn't seal -- doesn't the sealant >> leak out into the casing? And when casing is sewn shut over tube -- what >> then? I'd imagine you have a plus-que-bloody mess, right? >> > > I encountered this with my used FMB and thus came to a couple > conclusions. First, if the tire doesn't hold air long enough to be able to > ride at least a little bit, don't use sealant because then you will, yes, > get a mess. I was foolish enough to administer sealant more than once > thinking maybe another dose would do the trick. The resulting mess made my > subsequent repairs much more difficult but not necessarily messy. I use > effetto mariposa sealant because it has no ammonia. I was told by LBS that > ammonia in sealant will eventually dissolve latex tubes. I have no idea if > that is true but they lost a sale because all their sealant had ammonia. > Anyway, it was this mistake and mess that is largely responsible for the > lumpiness of my repair. First I had trouble extracting the old tube and > also pulling the new tube through. I finally had to open up the tire in > several places and use a dowel to fish/force out the solidified sealant > mess. Naturally, I had to do a lot more sewing and being that this was my > very first sew job, well, it is lumpy. But, hey, this was after all a > learning experience. From reading, it does seem different products have > different messiness properties which is why I specified which I use. > >> >> And more than this, when you go to remove the punctured tube, at least in >> my clincher experience, the ongoing minor leakage as the sealant takes its >> time to seal recurrent punctures means that you are faced, when time comes >> to remove the tube, with a tube that is firmly glued to the inside of the >> casing. Does this happen with tubulars, or are tube and casing so tightly >> pressed that the sealant can't get out and roam around inside the tire, so >> that leakage is minimal? >> > > I have no experience with this yet. In the above experience, I didn't > feel my difficulties were a result of any gluing properties but more an > issue of clogged passages. I kind of removed some balls of dried up > sealant, enough to get the old tube out and new tube in. Maybe there is > still some left in the tire? > >> >> My remarks bear on sealants even more than on tubulars, but my principal >> interest is whether sealants make tubulars viable. List traffic seems to >> weigh "pro." I'd be interested in hearing more from others who ride top >> line tubulars in goat head areas. >> >> My experience is definitely positive. I'm PRO! I have read that others >> have had less satisfactory results. I think some inject sealant as a >> preventative measure. I wait for a puncture first before I use sealant. I >> have zero personal experience with tubeless but I figure if sealant works >> for tubeless so well, why not in a tube too? So far, so good. >> >> *(I *think *that my recent problems of sealant not sealing is because >> I've been using Orange Seal Endurance -- skim milk version -- in my tubes, >> not the full cream version -- "regular." OS Endurance works very well in my >> fat, thinwall, low pressure Big Ones, but I've just switched back to >> regular for tubes and, sample size of 1 ride, all well -- after 2 >> consecutive rides of OSE and flats and mess. -- All in all, even the best >> sealants are nasty, messy PITAs. I was struggling with the crust built up >> around the underside of the bb and lower dt on the Matthews just now -- >> practically ineradicable. But they allow nice tires in thorn country, so I >> quietly offer it up.) >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 5:48 PM Bill Schairer <comm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Also being a Bill, I’ll volunteer my answer to Ted’s question. I have >>> two sets of the Vlaanderen tires, each set with about 1800 miles times 4 >>> gives me about 7200 tire miles? I have had one puncture too large for >>> sealant -glass cut. The tire was at about the rated mileage limit and well >>> worn but, unlike Bill L, I had no previous experience repairing tubulars so >>> doing the repair was my opportunity for a learning experience. REMA patch >>> and glue worked and the tire is still in service. All other punctures (not >>> sure how many but not a lot) have been fixed with sealant. I’ve opted to >>> ride with 2 spares and save sealant injections for home. I’ve changed >>> exactly one tire on the road, the aforementioned flat. All other punctures >>> were slow enough that I got home or they sealed from previously >>> administered sealant. So far, I’ve come to the conclusion that latex tubes >>> are more puncture resistant than butyl and leak more slowly when >>> punctured. I’ve also pulled 3 goat heads out of tires with no sealant >>> without any resulting loss of pressure. I don’t think I can ever remember >>> doing that with a clincher. >>> >>> I also did a complete tube replacement on a used FMB tire that I >>> acquired with a leak. That involved cutting a new $15 tube in half, >>> pulling it through and gluing it back together. Probably got the >>> instructions on that from Sheldon Brown. It took a long time but, again, >>> this was a learning experience. That tire has about 90 of my miles on it. >>> Not the greatest repair job - a little lumpy - but definitely worth it. >>> >>> I am also puzzled by a couple comments I’ve seen regarding these tires >>> being for “roadies.” I don’t consider myself a roadie - never raced - >>> always been a commuter, tourer and now recreational rider too. I’ve ridden >>> my tubulars on and off road and will ride them under any conditions I would >>> ride a clincher. Besides that, I believe many cyclocross racers use >>> tubulars and I shouldn’t think they are roadies. Just saying. >>> >>> I apologize as I know I have a tendency to get carried away with my >>> enthusiasm but reading the positive experiences of others who debunked the >>> notion that tubulars are something exotic not worth the trouble finally >>> pushed me to give them a try. I mean, there are similar discussions >>> regarding tubeless? Besides, the more people who will give them a shot, the >>> better chance we will get or keep more choices. I highly recommend them >>> for anyone who enjoys working on their bicycles. If somebody else does all >>> your work, maybe not the right choice. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ecc0bf8e-08fd-4cac-98e0-a59d3c923841%40googlegroups.com >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9ad4f1fd-8449-4eae-98ae-505110b6a6c0%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9ad4f1fd-8449-4eae-98ae-505110b6a6c0%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgs%3D_oLnsMKcFbYYyb_bWYXL0zEU8EzRtQ-NS3diwjoq9Q%40mail.gmail.com.
