If someone wants to express their dislike or critique of a product I think we 
should welcome it. Is this a discussion or cheerleading? I think if everyone 
can be polite and respectful then their should be enough room here for 
everyone’s opionions. I'm AM going with "two sides to a story" and "everybody 
has an opinion." I'm that nice.

I’d guess these were designed primarily as BEs and thumbies. I can’t tell you 
the last new Rivendell I saw with downtube shifters.  

Cheers!
Chris

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