Hi John, thanks for the reply! My Costco runs pale in comparison: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3605332794 + https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/3604518445/
But I have carried a decent amount of stuff, and never had the huge shimmy/resonation that I did on this trip. Maybe I just never noticed it as most of my rides are shorter? https://www.flickr.com/groups/cargobike/pool/64942209@N00/ Only downside now is the front end feels too light, especially at slow speed. But that is better than shimmy at speed but loosening up my grip! Doug things my rear rack could be a bit flexy, and that may be part of it as well. And I may play with strapping something lightish very tightly to the front rack (sleeping bag?) but really don't need to worry about it too much for a S240. On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 9:06 PM, John Stowe <stowe.j...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've ridden my Sam with many, many different cargo arrangements at this > point, and perhaps oddly for this group, none (so far) have involved > camping/touring. Yesterday I rode my Sam with 33 lb. of toddler on the back > and 33lb. of groceries on the front (and 233 lb. of me in the middle... hm). > So more than 40 lb. is certainly possible. I've never had a problem on my > Sam with what I'd call "shimmy", but certain configurations, especially with > high/forward weight over the front wheel, preclude handsfree operation and > require a bit more care with how you handle the bike. > > I do recognize the "like a noodle" description from the guy at Pardee on the > LHT. The comments above about rack stability are absolutely right. If I load > the lightly-built rear rack on my aluminum Trek with a full load of > groceries, the rack will flex as I go around turns, or even just pedaling if > the load is heavy, and it does feel disconcertingly like I'm riding a > noodle. The much stiffer (Tubus Cosmo) rack on my Sam doesn't flinch. On the > front, this problem can be much worse: my front rack is also quite sturdy > (Pass&Stow), but if I'm carrying something big, even though the rack can > support the weight, a steering input at the handlebars has to travel a > pretty long route to get to that weight: bars -> stem -> steerer -> fork > legs -> rack legs -> straps or bungies or zipties -> shifting within the bag > or box or basket. Each step along that chain has its own flex and is > potentially much closer to the axis of rotation than the load, which can > create a delay between your steering input and the load following, and make > it feel like you're steering the bike out from under your cargo (well, you > are). > > All of this is to say that if you're carrying something in front of the > handlebars, I strongly endorse Doug's suggestion of getting the weight down > close to the hub, or Chris's suggestion of strapping the load directly to > the handlebars - not so much to support the weight, but to gain more direct > control over the load by shortcutting that chain between the bars and the > weight. I think I remember one of the Riv videos about front racks or maybe > baskets included a bit about tying to the handlebars. While I've certainly > had to ride with my load in mind (avoid sudden turns and huge bumps), I've > never felt unstable or unsafe even with a comically large front load, as > long as it was directly attached to the handlebars. > > By comically large, I mean add another box to the stack in this picture (too > bad my phone ran out of battery that day) and then climb past some amused > staffers inside the security perimeter at the US Capitol: > https://flic.kr/p/igxQLd > > > On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 10:12:29 AM UTC-4, Chris Chen wrote: >> >> I found that with the homer + mark's rack + basket load, if I didn't add a >> second set of struts to the rack, I'd get these harmonic movements that got >> really nerve wracking on decents, etc. Sort of solved it by either >> >> 1) irish strapping rack to the handlebars >> 2) replacing with big front rack >> >> On my low trail chicken, with heavy loads I also get oscillating movement, >> but we're talking tens of pounds here, like two cases of beer territory; I >> often clamp the top tube with my legs and I it calms it down--in this case I >> can definitely see the flexing of the tubes as this happens. >> >> cc >> >> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 5:01 PM, cyclotourist <cyclot...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Doug! Last weekend would have been a good time to talk about >>> this, but too busy scraping off the mud! :-) >>> I only had the one pannier this time, so figure that could be a >>> contributing factor. Although last time I had two, with same effect. >>> Hands-free isn't the absolute goal, but riding with a light touch >>> would be nice! I get death-shimmy at even real low speeds if I let go >>> of the bars, and a minor one if I use one hand light. Gotta' be a >>> better way! >>> >>> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:32 PM, dougP <doug...@cox.net> wrote: >>> > David: >>> > >>> > As you can see, there is no single answer to the shimmy problem. >>> > Personally, I think where the load is, both front / rear and high / >>> > low) and >>> > how each of us rides are major factors. A good example is Joe Bartoe's >>> > experience with shimmy on his Hilsen with a light front load, whereas >>> > my >>> > Atlantis will shimmy with a lightly loaded rear saddlebag but moving >>> > that >>> > bag to the front solves the problem. Atlantis & Homer are different >>> > bikes, >>> > and Joe & I are different sizes and likely riding styles. >>> > >>> > As to solving the puzzle, I found a gentle hill that allowed the bike >>> > roll >>> > up to about 20 mph w/o pedaling (pedaling seems to dampen things for >>> > me). I >>> > took 4 panniers loaded with books to simulate the weight of my gear, >>> > and >>> > tried all front, all rear, some front, some rear, etc., until I found a >>> > combination that was rock solid. What works for me is 60% of the >>> > weight in >>> > front & 40% rear. For an S240 or a loding tour, I only need 2 bags so >>> > they >>> > both go on the front. In the photo, I don't recall what was in the >>> > saddle >>> > bag but it was probably a last minute add for overflow, and the >>> > sleeping pad >>> > hanging off the back can't weight much. >>> > >>> > To avoid buying new stuff for only a few trips per year, take what >>> > you've >>> > got & find a similar hill and experiment. I think the no-hands is >>> > asking a >>> > lot but I grant you should be able to ride the bike light handed & not >>> > in a >>> > death grep. Seriously try putting some heavy stuff in the basket BUT >>> > make >>> > sure it can't shift or bounce around. I had some dive weights in my >>> > Acorn >>> > bag on time (they would let us drive tent stakes) and got shimmy for >>> > shimmy >>> > (probably had 12 lbs of lead). >>> > >>> > Location is another variable. Weight up high (basket, rando bag, etc.) >>> > seems to be shimmy enabling. If you can't come up with a non-shimmy >>> > combination with your existing rackage, you may have to look at low >>> > riders. >>> > IMHO getting the weight centered around the front axle seems to improve >>> > life >>> > greatly. I've used my big Ortleibs on my Tubus Duo front rack and it's >>> > rock >>> > solid. >>> > >>> > Another consideration that's been mentioned is the roller bearing >>> > headset >>> > that Riv sells. I've got one on my Atlantis and have not had any >>> > shimmy >>> > since installing. But then before that I'd worked around the shimmy >>> > with >>> > loading so it can't be credited entirely. But it's still worth a >>> > thought. >>> > >>> > Lastly, and probably heresay here, but I've had situations where I know >>> > the >>> > Nitto Big Back rack was contributing to handling difficulties, albeit >>> > likely >>> > overloaded by their standards. As beautiful as they are, they lack >>> > lateral >>> > triangulation and can develop resonance. Tubus and other rack makers >>> > design >>> > with a triangle, viewed from the rear, that greatly stiffens the >>> > structure. >>> > The Nitto R-26 (?) that I had for while is essentially a pyramid, is >>> > made >>> > out of 10 mm tubing, and is as stiff as they come. Unfortunately the >>> > platform was a little small for my needs. >>> > >>> > On our next S24O, I'll throw all my junk on the back to see how things >>> > work >>> > with Tubus rack since I got the needle bearing headset. The downside >>> > to >>> > front low riders is limited clearance. >>> > >>> > dougP >>> > >>> > On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 9:27:05 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> It took me a sec to find a photo, but it handled just as terribly when >>> >> it was straight rear-loaded with nothing on front. You can see it on >>> >> the right in this photo, with both panniers in place and packed full: >>> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/15187812094 >>> >> So basically two panniers full + tent in back = bad >>> >> One pannier + tent in back with light load on front = bad >>> >> Is there a magic way to load this that makes it pleasant to ride? I >>> >> know it's not a loaded touring bike, but hoping for at least a little >>> >> stability whilst loaded and not crazy shimmy all over the road. >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 9:11 PM, Joe Bartoe <jba...@hotmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > David, >>> >> > >>> >> > My experience with a Hilsen with small front rack and small front >>> >> > bag on >>> >> > it, >>> >> > indicates that Riv-designed bikes are not really good handlers with >>> >> > front >>> >> > loads. It shimmied like crazy! The other items may have contributed, >>> >> > but >>> >> > my >>> >> > guess is the stuff on the front had more to do with the shimmy. >>> >> > >>> >> > Joe >>> >> > >>> >> > Joe Bartoe >>> >> > Synaptic Cycles Bicycle Rentals, Inc. >>> >> > email: j...@synapticcycles.com >>> >> > website: www.synapticcycles.com >>> >> > Twitter: @synapticcycles >>> >> > phone: 949-374-6079 >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >> > Groups >>> >> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >> > send >>> >> > an >>> >> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> David >>> >> >>> >> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace >>> >> >>> >> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cheers, >>> David >>> >>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace >>> >>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
