Dear Sam, Warning: I helped design one of the bikes discussed below (the Road Sport), and tested another (the Allroad) during its prototyping.
The design philosophies of their "base" machines are pretty different. Summary: Rivbike and Boulder have different use targets. They approach fitting somewhat differently. They approach 'versatility' from opposite perspectives. Grant's machines value interchangeability with standard bits and reconfigurability. Mike's bikes are closely optimized for a specific set of purposes. Both can be excellent, and my example machines have all brought me joy. I know which I prefer (my Heron lives in Vermont on long-term loan to my trailer-towing brother, and my Allroad went on the Wed. Night Lights ride with me then came to work this morning), but it took a decade of really conscious experimentation to dial it in. If they fit and are set up well, either is wonderful. I own a Heron Touring bike, and it is a stout-tube, O/S, silver-brazed lugged machine. It is designed in the British rear-loading tradition, and informed by Grant Petersen's experience with Bridgestone. It is a versatile bike, because it is easily reconfigured and all fittings are standard. There are some non-optimized things about it--heavy tube spec for loaded use is less sprightly when not loaded, the fender clearances aren't consistent, it has moderate TCO, no bosses on bridges, no provision to run wires around on it, and--for me--it sure doesn't play nicely with a light to moderate front load. It is a great commuting and errand machine. It tows a trailer well, doesn't complain if you get two gallons of milk and just toss them in a saddlebag, and is a smooth and generally well-behaved bike. It isn't lively (smooth, comfortable, sure. Not lively). The aesthetic of the lugs and the bike without "accessories" was pretty important to the designer, and there is a carefully cultivated air about their ad copy, Grant's writing about his bikes, and the resulting aesthetic. I also own a couple of Boulder Bikes. Because Mike builds bikes for different applications, I'll talk about both in a bit of detail. Both are TIG welded, painted simple colors, and, while he clearly cares about how his bikes look, they're a bit more functionally-oriented. One is a fat-tire road bike--the Road Sport model. It is basically the road-racing bike I wanted when I was seventeen, but updated for my middle-aged power output and optimized for the wide tubulars I prefer for that kind of bike. All fittings are modern-ish standard. I could mount fenders (the clearance is exactly right, and the bridge locations are consistent), but it really isn't designed with them in mind (short front center, no eyelets, no bosses on the bridges). It is a fair-weather day-riding road bike, and can be raced in CX and on the road without modification. The other is an Allroad. It is designed as an integrated unit--with a parts spec in mind, with specialized braze-ons and fitted bits not easily sourced from Excel Sports or my local bike shop (650B tires, braze-on centerpull brakes, decaleur/small front rack, etc), and it was designed as a no-compromise all-surface, all-weather sporting bike--but not constrained to road-racing rules. It is designed to have fenders permanently mounted. It is designed for a light front load. It is designed for permanently-installed generator-powered lighting. It is designed to be exceptionally comfortable and efficient for non-racing sporting use, and with particular attention to my performance in the hills, up and down. That design brief, what that bike is refined and optimized to do, limits its versatility--It doesn't tow trailers very happily. It really needs its handlebar bag and a couple of pounds of load to handle the way I want a bike to handle. I couldn't race it without an hour of removing lighting, wiring, fenders, adjusting gearing, and replacing tires. I couldn't conveniently ride it fixed. That particular bike isn't set up for camping. However, it happens to also do an awful lot of what I actually regularly do on a bike exceptionally well--year-round suburban commuting, skying around off-pavement and occasionally offroad in the hills in all weather, long-distance non-racing sporting rides (where I find a big handlebar bag effectively mandatory--feed bag, wardrobe, and map-holder, all accessible on the move). I pull a trailer about 5mi/month, and go camping a couple times a year. I don't race much, and I have a bike that races well without modification. I live with those limitations when I bump up against them, which is a small fraction of my riding time. The Heron does all of those things as well (except carry a light front load only--why I went down the front-loading bike route to begin with), with suitable modifications. I could even race on it. However, dealing with the compromises of such a versatile bike constantly wasn't worth it once alternatives came available to me for my mix of uses. "Does it all" doesn't do what I mostly do as well as I'd like. However, if my uses changed substantially, then so would the "best bike". If I didn't ride brevets, then a handlebar bag goes from a necessity to a convenience, for example. If I towed two children to daycare every day, then the stout frame becomes desirable, even if it doesn't climb all that well for me when unladen on the weekends. If I actually raced the bike, then having less-effective but quickly-removed fenders would be a benefit. Best Regards, Will William M. deRosset Fort Collins, CO On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 1:43:51 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote: > > So, what are the similarities/diffs between your Boulders and Rivbikes? > > Is there a characteristic ride quality of each that stands out? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
