Thanks, everyone for all your thoughts.  The reason I was vacillating 
between the Clem and the Sam is primarily economic, being that they are 
Riv's lowest cost models.  I could be very happy on either bicycle.  Right 
now, I am riding a 1976 vintage Raleigh Gran Sport.  Its a fine bike.  It 
is old school lugged steel, but I tend to baby it because of its age, and a 
perceived need to keep it on smooth pavement.  It has 27" wheels, and those 
don't come in a lot of widths anymore.  I am wanting something more 
versatile, and new.  The thought of a discount Atlantis or Hunq sounds 
great.  I love the look of the Appaloosa, with the diagatube, the curvy 
stays, and the long rear triangle.  I would ride it mostly about town, 
doing errands, and the occasional foray into the trails around here.   I 
really don't have any real plans for s24o's, but when the opportunity comes 
up, it will be great to have the bike that will handle it.  I think I've 
talked myself into a Clem, but I'm open to suggestion.  I have been curious 
about the 650B wheel size, just to try it and see.  The medium Clem (my 
size) has those, a bonus.  But what about that 29.8 mm seatpost?  Who makes 
that size?

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Surlyprof wrote:
>
>
> I bought my Hillborne after seeing the first Clems but I did so because it 
> was the right compliment to an MTB I already had.  It was a replacement for 
> a Bianchi that maxed out at 25c tires.  The Hillborne is a pretty different 
> bike than the Clem.  From initial reports, it sounds like the Clem is 
> closer to a discount Atlantis or Hunq based on stoutness and a discount 
> Appaloosa based on stability from longer stays.  The Hillborne is a bit 
> tighter and less stout.  Closer to a Hilson than the Atlantis or Hunq. 
>  That said, I just carried 4 bottles of wine in the front basket and two 
> bottles in the saddlebag yesterday and, aside from a little shimmy, it was 
> definitely up for the task.  I'd feel comfortable camping or touring with 
> it (seems like many people do).  I've also found that everything I ride now 
> that is not my Hillborne feels twitchy and overly aggressive.  The Sam H is 
> incredibly smooth and handles beautifully but I've come to expect that from 
> every Rivendell I ride.  If you want to ride fatter tires than a 45 (40 
> with fenders), get the Clem... and enjoy whatever level of components you 
> want to put on it.  Take a look at the Clem Drew Beckmeyer gave to his 
> girlfriend in the other post.  He described it as stout like a Hunq and it 
> looks fantastic with the Brooks b67 and the Schwalbe Big Ben 50's (50+?) he 
> has on it.  A machine to be proud of for sure (as is the Hillborne if you 
> decide to go that way).
>
> If you are close enough to Riv to try both, that would be the thing to 
> do.  If not, buy the one that supports what you want to do with a bike.  
> They said the Clem rides like a Riv on the Blug and I believe them.  As for 
> pedals, I love both my thin gripsters and my grip kings.  If I had a Clem, 
> it would have one of those pedals on it (maybe even one of each!... That 
> sounds very "Clem")
>
> John
>
> On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 10:30:22 AM UTC-7, Wayne Naha wrote:
>
>> The Clem sounds like a great bike for me, just the right level of 
>> stoutness to the frame and those nice longer chainstays.  I had been 
>> considering a Sam, but Clem has turned my head.  Yet I can't contemplate 
>> hanging plastic pedals off it, and I would really like to have a generator 
>> hub, too.  But it seems like the idea that the Clem is some kind of 
>> 'beater' bike because it is unlovely is being promoted.  But this would the 
>> most money I have ever spent on a bike!  My 'beater' says 'Huffy' on it.  I 
>> want to be proud of this bike, even if it is not the prettiest.  Is it 
>> silly to put Velocity Atlas rims, a Schmidt SON hub, and aBrooks saddle on 
>> the Clem?  Or should I save a little longer for the Sam? 
>> Also, does anyone know headtube and seat tube angles for the Clem?
>
>

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