I'm also a person that the B17 doesn't work for.
A B17-N is much better. A Brooks Swift is perfecto.
I've not tried a Swallow but, as I recall, the Swift/Swallow dimensions are 
similar.
-JimD

On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:08 AM, john <johnco...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Thanks Steve. These are the specifics I'm after. Perhaps I'll try a B.17N. My 
> Sitz are 115M wide, so I definitely do better on a narrower saddle, 
> especially as my bars are a tad lower than my saddle.
> 
> On Thursday, March 20, 2014 6:06:20 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
> On 03/20/2014 02:46 AM, john wrote: 
> > Steve: 
> > 
> > The B.17 has bag loops, of course, but if I choose to ride a different 
> > saddle (heresy, I know) without bag loops, I can either choose to 
> > attach a saddlebag with aftermarket loops such as the VO, or carry my 
> > stuff in a different fashion. I was trying to determine how the loaded 
> > trunk rides versus the loaded saddlebag. 
> 
> I asked about the B.17N, the narrow version of the B.17, specifically to 
> suggest it: everything you like about the B.17, only narrow. 
> 
> Loaded trunk bags are far more noticeable than a loaded saddlebag, a 
> very noticeable tail-wagging-the-dog feeling.  A loaded saddlebag is 
> almost unnoticeable in my experience except when rocking the bike out of 
> the saddle, but a heavily loaded trunk bag really feels like it's 
> wagging the back of the bike. 
> 
> 
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