As I said previously, I'm only concerned about what was published in the 
archive of stat.ethz.ch.
I visited https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help to find out where I had 
to send my request to remove those messages and I read:
"R-help list run by maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch, bates at r-project.org"
So I emailed these addresses and r-help-owner at r-project.org.
Only David got back to me, denying my request, so this is why I'm discussing it 
here.
If anybody could provide me a contact of who is controlling this archive, I 
would definitely appreciate it.
Regards,
John
----- Message d'origine -----
De : Uwe Ligges
Envoyés : 21.09.13 10:26
À : Adan Leobardo Martinez Cruz
Objet : Re: [R] Re : Privacy rights of an old user of this list

The locations where the mailing list are archived are not even controlled by 
any member of R-core or the R foundation. Everybody, including John, could 
collect mails from the list and publish them. This is a well known property of 
a public mailing list. Uwe Ligges On 17.09.2013 13:29, Adan Leobardo Martinez 
Cruz wrote: > Dear all, > > I will express my opinion without knowing the 
details of the posts John would like to be removed. > > In the current state, 
people posting on this and other servers have no clear way to go when trying to 
remove their posts. > It is a likely event that the number of people attempting 
the removal of their past posts will increase. Their reasons will vary and may 
or not may be reasonable to us. > It seems that a discussion on how the 
R-server will handle this likely situation is needed (including the possibility 
of keeping the current policy, of course) > Once the decision has been taken, a 
warning note would be helpful for newcomers (something in!
  big, black letters saying that whatever we post will not be removed or 
something like that). > > Best regards to all, > > adan > > > > 
________________________________________ > From: r-help-boun...@r-project.org 
[r-help-boun...@r-project.org] on behalf of John Gonzalez 
[john.gonza...@gmx.fr] > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:14 PM > To: David 
Winsemius; Albin Blaschka; Duncan Murdoch; Jeff Newmiller; S Ellison; Jim Lemon 
> Cc: r-help@r-project.org > Subject: [R] Re : Privacy rights of an old user of 
this list > > I would like to thank David for letting me publish this and 
discuss it openly. I must acknowledge from the answers that I received to my 
post, that the administrators of this list are doing what seems to be fair to 
me: what most people demand or understand that is right. > However I don't 
share your views and I honestly think you are making a mistake which may hurt 
you just as much as it is hurting me now) in the long term. Let me develop my 
point. > First of !
 all let me clarify for those who accuse me of being desinformed or inn

ocent about my request, I'm not asking for your collaboration to remove what I 
published from the internet, its google records or any of the infinite copies 
that may be lying around. I'm asking for a very simple thing: > There are 7 
messages (sorry it wasn't 3...) written by me and hosted at the server 
stat.ethz.ch https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/2009-March/190367.html which 
I would like to have removed. > Now, Steve E makes a good point: "I am also of 
the opinion that the list owner was not showing disrespect by describing the 
state of affairs you agreed to on signing up, or by declining to act beyond the 
requirements of the conditions applicable to the list. " Steve > Fair enough. 
But that doesn't mean that those conditions are right and should never be 
modified. I'm probably something similar to an unhappy customer who has bought 
a product with no money-back policy but with an important distinction: I'm 
going to be wearing this product for the rest of my life. So th!
 at makes me, if anything, a "very unhappy customer". > Now let me explain why 
in this world I'm spending time on requesting the removal of these 7 messages 
in that server. > I have a MS in Computer Science and a 5 years long 
Telecommunications degree, I know quite well how the internet works. This is 
not the first time that I request this. I already requested it in another 
mailing list, where they were kind enough to aprove it after I verified my 
identity and they checked that they weren't removing anything critical. The 
result was that that piece information was obviously not erased from the entire 
internet but was not showing up in the first 12 pages of google when you would 
look up my name (when it was on the first page previously). It took me 5 
requests to different servers but I managed. There is nothing impossible about 
it and it made a difference in my life. > So why is this important for me 
(something like not showing up on the first pages of google?). Well please u!
 nderstand that there is a difference between publishing an article and

 writing an email to a list. An article goes through several personal revisions 
and is examined by a professional reviewer before it is published. It only 
takes a click to send an email. It is extremely easy to make mistakes 
(particularly when you are young and you know little about life). Actually, 
people make lots of mistakes and banks may use it to deny you or give you 
credit, employers to give you an opportunity or not, a lover to have more or 
less reasons to meet you etc etc etc. Removing this information from servers 
that are more visited by the search bot crawlers makes a difference: your 
banker will have to spend more time or resources to refuse your credit request, 
your lover may be already calling you for a date, your employer may be already 
calling your for an interview. > Now, if you have a lifetime job, if you never 
want to change your career, if you will never need a credit, if you have a 
lovely, healthy and loyal wife, what I just wrote may sound meaningless b!
 ut if anything happens to your life, you may end up remembering what I said 
and suffering like me. > Why? Because you it is not possible to remove 7 
messages from a server? OK, this is surely extra work that may be difficult to 
handle but have you considered adding a small fee for those removal requests? I 
would be more than happy to pay for it. > "There are a quite a few of my 
postings to newsgroups that I wouldn't mind seeing disappear and even a few on 
the Rhelp archives. I just don't think that my errors in judgment or > 
knowledge deserve to be ignored. My hope is that I am judged on the balance of 
useful versus boneheaded." David > I hope that my point is clear by now. My 
original motivation was and continues to be that my name was associated with a 
company that I don't want to be associated with (may I keep my reasons 
private?). My knowledge or professionality is not at stake for what I said. I 
can actually prove to you that I abandonded my career in engineering and I!
 'm working in things that have nothing to do with it. > Looking forwar

d to hearing your opinions again. > Best regards, > John > ----- Message 
d'origine ----- > De : John Gonzalez > Envoyés : 12.09.13 15:40 > À : 
r-help@r-project.org, r-help@r-project.org > Objet : [R] Privacy rights of an 
old user of this list > > Dear subscribers of r-help, I would like to know your 
opinion about a privacy problem that I recently had after publishing to this 
list. Not a long time ago, I requested to the administrators of this list that 
they removed 2 or 3 old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name 
with an old company for which I worked a few years ago when you would look up 
my real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many mirrors of this list 
archive and that this is a hard work, however my point was to move their google 
references to later pages so that new people that look up my name would focus 
first on more recent work that I see as more relevant for what I would like to 
do in the future. This is the answer that I received!
  from Mr. Winsemius: << Such a service is not available. Almost immediately 
rhelp postings are replicated in multiple websites around the world. The 
information that you could have (and should have) read at the time of signing 
up is here: https://stat.et! > hz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help ... and the 
relevant sentence is: "Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ 
discussion lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via 
several websites for many years." >> I followed up explaining that at that time 
I was too young to understand the consequences of what I was doing and that, 
honestly, I didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. Winsemius didn't 
understand the reason of my request and therefore decided to ignore it, even 
after asking a representative from the company mentioned in my old posts to 
contact him to request the removal of such posts. At this point I feel 
completely powerless and disturbed that the administrators of the r-help list 
refus!
 e to remove a text that I decided a long time ago to publish here. I d

on't think that they own the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have 
done wrong to be disrespected in such a way. Best regards, John Gonzalez 
(pseudonym) [[alternative HTML version! > deleted]] 
______________________________________________ R-help@r-pro > > ject.org 
mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the 
posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide 
commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > [[alternative HTML 
version deleted]] > > > ______________________________________________ > 
R-help@r-project.org mailing list > 
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide 
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, 
self-contained, reproducible code. >

        [[alternative HTML version deleted]]

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